- (3:30) – “I knew what I shouldn’t be eating. But there was nothing out there telling me what I should do.”
- (6:07) – Managing and manifesting thoughts
- (10:45) – “85% of people that come to me have very poor relationships with food”
- (11:40) – Where the love for coaching began
- (14:00) – The significance of the ONE thing
- (19:00) – The business model people said wouldn’t work
- (23:15) – Overdelivery: What he learned from hanging with the likes of Gary Vaynerchuck
- (29:30) – Online calculators and templated nutrition information
- (32:46) – Extreme performance vs Extreme aesthetics
- (37:29) – The ONE thing you can do is take the reigns on your nutrition goals
- (40:20) – Having to work out less to lose weight
- (44:15) – Time and efficiency
- (53:30) – Education and Application
Hey everyone. This is Jason Phillips and you’re listening to The Airborne Mind Show.
Hey guys, Misbah Haque here. Thank you so much for joining me today and welcome back to the show. Before we get started, make sure you head over to theairbornemind.com. Check out some of the cool coaching videos. We’ve got a hip mobility warmup, shoulder stability warmup, a glute-ham development session, and a couple of checklists and guides as well, so go see what’s most relevant to you. And if you are more active on social, make sure you give us a follow on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. Lots of cool coaching videos rolling out in the near future, so you’ll stay posted and updated with that. Once again, that is theairbornemind.com and the handle for social is @airbornemind.
Now today’s episode is brought to you by audible.com. So, if you head over to theairbornemind.com/readinglist, you can see a list of all the books that previous guests have recommended on the show.
You can also get a free audiobook and a 30-day free trial from audible.com, as well. So, once again, that is theairbornemind.com/reading list. Today we get to chat with Jason Phillips. There are multiple reasons why I’m excited about this episode, but one of them being that he has been in the nutrition coaching industry for over 13 years at this point. He’s worked with physique competitors. He has worked with the everyday athlete and he’s too humbled to name drop so I’ll do it for him, but he’s worked with Sarah Sigman’s daughter, Brent Fikoski. And if you’ve ever heard of Mission Six Nutrition, he’s the founder of that supplement company, as well. Back in the day, he was an Abercrombie and Fitch model.
He was signed by Optimum Nutrition. He was a spokesmodel for bodybuilding.com. He’s given talks at Google, and he was also a professional golfer, at one point. So, this guy has done a lot. And when I think of Jason, I think of action and application. And I think we could all use a little bit more of that in our lives. So, we get to dig into a high-performer’s head and see how he’s wired, how he thinks, and what we can learn from him. He’s been through a lot and this was truly a wonderful conversation. So, with that being said, please enjoy. Jason, welcome to the show, man.
Thanks a lot, man. Thanks for having me. And yeah, dude, I’ve been wanting to do this one for a long time, so I’m glad that we’re doing it.
I am so excited because you are somebody who I think can, and does, facilitate change. And there’s certainly an art to that. I don’t think we should take that for granted, but something that you’ve been able to deeply connect with people, and I think has been a contributing factor to what drives you to do what you do today, is back when you were an Abercrombie and Fitch model, you battled with an eating disorder and I think you developed a deep sense of empathy at that point, which gives you an edge when it comes to connecting with people on all sorts of levels. So, could you tell us a little bit about that time?
Yeah. In all fairness, it was a pretty dark time. If you rewind to before that, I was an athlete and I’ll use that term super loosely because I was a golfer. In my senior year of high school, I was really good and everyone told me I was going to go pro. I played the AJGA stuff. And that was my life, man. I was a skinny kid that went to school and all I wanted to do was leave school, go to the golf course, and practice. And literally dude, my senior year of high school, I didn’t go to school on Mondays. I was always travelling to tournaments. And so, coming out of school, I got injured and I just lost my identity.
I didn’t have any self. The whole gym thing happened because I was in the rehab setting. So, combined with being approached to model for Abercrombie, being in the gym, and actually falling in love with weightlifting, that’s actually where it all began. But then it became a very unhealthy obsession and looking back on it now, it was largely related to the misinformation that was being put out by the media. So, the story I always tell is, when I was in Abercrombie, they were like, Hey, we love your look. Just send us pictures but you have to have abs, show us your abs. And I was like, well, holy shit, man. I don’t have abs. I better figure this thing out really quickly.
And so, I’m asking everybody, how do I get abs? I remember my paediatrician at the time, he was a family friend. He told me to go read Men’s Health and Fitness and Muscle and Fitness. And they’ve all got nutrition articles and it’s all nutrition. And so, I remember reading these articles and all it said was, don’t eat this, don’t eat that. I knew what I shouldn’t be eating, but there was nothing out there telling me what I should do. And looking back and digging deep even further, it was all templated advice. It was very general and it absolutely had no specific application to me and my unique situation. So, that definitely was the root cause.
Obviously, there are mental issues that come with that. I won’t blame articles 100%, but as I slowly came out of that and as I started helping more and more people, I made a commitment to myself that I’m going to fix this piece of the industry and I’m never going to allow that to hurt another person or put them in the place I once was with my relationship with food. And that really is the strongest driver of what I do today.
I feel like we have this viewpoint when we look at you or we look at people that we admire, Jason coach’s elite athletes, he looks like a stud, he’s super successful. But I’m curious, with a lot of these mental demons, have you reached a point where you’ve solved it? Because I feel like people look at it where, you reach the peak and you just stay in there, but I’m curious if that is actually the case. Or do you feel like certain tendencies and emotions still pop up for you that you have to manage?
I had this conversation with a client when I was in Chicago when I was speaking at Google. He asked, how do you go from where you once were to where you are today? And I think that the truth of overcoming it is you learn to understand and you have comprehension as to how everything works. I would almost argue that I know too much for my own good, relative to that. I think that I have trust in the process, but I have trust because I’ve been through the process. And so, the story I’ll tell is, when I came out of anorexia, there was somebody that told me, you have to go and you have to eat 4,000 calories a day. For whatever reason, I put blind trust into this person.
I did it and I remember waking up like a week and a half later being like, oh, I’m not fat. It works. And then you fast forward, a year later I went away to college and I tried to be like a normal college kid. I certainly didn’t want to admit to my guy friends that I had an eating disorder. Because that’s not manly and that wouldn’t be cool for a college kid. They would want to go for pizza at night or they would want to go for Chipotle. I remember literally being scared shitless. I thought this one meal is going to make me fat because those are the anorexic tendencies. And so, I bit the bullet I ate the pizza.
I remember waking up the next day looking in the mirror and realizing it didn’t make me fat. And so now I’m trusting these foods that don’t make me fat. I’ve been in the industry for 13 years, coaching physique competitors. I know almost every food that affects your physique. My level of comprehension is so high that if I deviate from my own nutritional protocol, I feel what it’s going to do. I know what to expect. I know how to fix it. But that’s all knowledge. I wouldn’t say that from a mentality standpoint, that I don’t still go there at times, because I think for anyone that ever has an eating disorder, it’s a nervous system disorder. So, I don’t really think that you ever fully overcome it. I think you’re always going to have the thoughts. It’s how you manifest those thoughts that are going to determine your outcomes.
What do you think usually sparks that change for people? Because I think what I’ve heard Tony Robbins and other people who are well versed in behaviour and psychology talk about is extreme pain. When you feel extreme pain like you get into a car accident, a family member passes away, or maybe extreme pleasure, like you have a baby that’s born, those are the moments where you get really real with yourself. And that’s when you actually start taking action and change. What are your thoughts on that?
Tony talks a lot more about self-help and I’m a huge Tony Robbins fan. The eating disorder for me brought about periods of depression and so I think that that’s absolutely applicable. I’m not sure what it is with the food. As much as I would love to say that there’s this defining point where you’re so over it, so to speak, I’m not really sure that’s how it is with food. I really think the whole time you have this eating disorder, in my personal experience, I can’t speak for everybody that’s had one, I was aware that I was not doing it right, but I was so afraid of doing it differently.
And there has to be a catalyst of trust and you have to care for it at such a deep level. There has to be a level of caring from somebody on the outside as well as yourself. I don’t know if it’s this place of pain. There absolutely is a massive amount of pain that comes with it, but I’m not sure if it’s the same as self-help where the pain is what drives the course of action of coming out. I think it’s finally finding something that you trust and truly believe that allows you to do it. I would argue that’s more a catalyst of success.
Okay. Now, I’m curious, do you think there’s a lot of people that are maybe walking around with undiagnosed eating disorders?
Eating disorders are a really tricky word. I would definitely, 100% say there’s a lot of people walking around with very poor relationships with food. I would argue 85% of the people that come to me have very poor relationships with food. That’s one of these situations where like the media told them, you were good for six days, go and have a cheat meal. Right. So, that’s a really shitty way to look at food.
So, you battled with this eating disorder, you decided to do something about it. When did you realize that you wanted to be a nutrition coach and when did you actually consider yourself a nutrition coach?
So, I knew when I came out of anorexia that I loved it. I’m borderline obsessed with this. I want to know everything about it. And I remember being in school at Florida State and helping people, not because I wanted to be a nutrition coach, but because I was so passionate about this thing that had changed my life. I had to tell people about it. It changed my life, dude. I need to show them the way because my life is so much better now. And so I don’t think at that time I was like, man, I’m going to be a nutrition coach. I’m just talking to people about something that I love. So, I did the school thing. I actually left school.
I did pursue a career in professional golf. I turned pro. I wasn’t very good. So, I lost that status very quickly. And the underlying tone was I was always looking into fitness. At the time it was bodybuilding and that whole mainstream fitness side. And so after I turned pro and after I ran out my time on the floor, I was in very good shape for a golfer. I did a photoshoot and Optimum Nutrition signed me. And at the same time, I got a lot of exposure from bodybuilding.com. And so, I was one of their first-ever spokesmodels. At that time, everybody online started reaching out to me for help through the site called Body Space.
And I thought I guess I can do this. And honestly, it found me, I didn’t find it. I think that by me putting my passion out there, people thought, wow, this guy really enjoys what he does and he probably could help me. And it built itself, to be honest.
That’s really interesting. So, you had no intention of really diving into nutrition coaching. It found you.
100%. And once it found me, I saw the space and decided I need to do this because there’s so much bad information out there. But the very Genesis of it was it found me. Absolutely.
So, something that stands out to me about you, When I’ve reached out to you before with some questions, you’ve given me some questions that have made me really think. And I’ve seen you post on Instagram about this before as well, but you talk a lot about “the one thing,” and I’m curious, does this stem from the book by Gary Keller? No. Tell me a little bit more about this “one thing” and why it’s so important to you.
So, the one thing for me is, I firmly believe every single person listening to this right now, and every single person out there knows they could identify one thing right now that will move them forward in their life. Right? I don’t know what your problems are. I don’t know what your goals are. I don’t know what your ambitions are, but I guarantee you, if you took 10 seconds to think, there’s one thing you could be doing better right now. And when I first wanted to be successful, I had a fitness business, and I thought, I have to do this and I have to do that. And there’s a hundred things I needed to do. And I became paralyzed by the thought of it being so much. And then I started making it really simple.
If I do this one thing today, then I’ll do one more thing tomorrow. Everything became better. Recently, I was turned on to this thing called The Five Minute Journal by Mark Fit. And so I started using it every day. It’s very simple. There are three things that you write every day that you’re going to do. And I find it really clears the mind. Now, my one thing was prior to finding this, but coincidentally, it’s very much the same school of thought. I think that people are focused so much on the big picture instead of actually going out and taking one simple action and above all else, action is what leads to success in any endeavour. And so, if we broke it down to a dietary thing, so many people think they need the perfect macros, but not really.
You don’t need the perfect macros. You need to do one thing better. And for a large majority of Western civilization, that could be to cut out soda. You take an obese person and you cut out soda, they’re probably going to lose 10 pounds. Great. That one thing actually led to results. Now, what’s the next thing we can do? Oh, let’s get your protein intake adequate. Okay, cool. There are another 10 pounds gone. Now, let’s get you doing 30 minutes of exercise a day, there are another 10 pounds. But if I told you on day one, you have to cut soda, you have to get more protein, and you have to exercise 30 minutes a day, you’d probably look back and say that’s too much of a change. It’s a simplification of ultimately, continuous action.
I think it also gives you a chance to gain credibility with yourself. I’ve heard Chase Jarvis talk about this before. He uses something called “the habit list”. And essentially what it is is the compiled the 10 things that he can do every day that are super, super small actions, but that are all-encompassing in his life that make him feel like he’s operating at 100% of his capacity. And so, I don’t know exactly what those details are, but for me, when I started thinking about this, my nutrition habits aren’t amazing or anything like that. So, for me, this has been about four weeks since I’ve been doing this, but I asked what makes me feel really, really good?
Like I’m actually making progress when it comes to nutrition. And I know that if I start counting my macros or doing any of those things that everybody recommends, it’s not sustainable for me at this stage. So, what I started doing was I started making the Hulk shake. And the Hulk shake is something Joe Rogan talks about, I’m sure there are so many ways you can optimize that shake. But essentially what it is, is just a shit ton of greens. And so, for me, it’s a mental way for me to win every day and know I had my greens for the day. I’m making progress. And I guess once that locks in, after a couple of weeks, then you can take the next step. And now it’s something that is a little more sustainable, right?
Yeah. You can apply that to any other facet of life. Like building a house. Yes, you have to build a foundation, you have to put the walls up, you have to put drywall in, install insulation, put the roof on, paint, decorate. But unless you do the foundation first, nothing happens. So, the one thing on day one is to build the foundation. So many people are coming to me thinking they need the perfect macros and the timing and the supplementation and how long are we going to be in this phase for?
And they’re all very valid questions because I understand they’re coming from a great place of wanting to see success. What I need to get a client to do is focus on today and right now. If this meal is in line with our goals, great, then the next meal needs to be in line with their goals and the next meal and the next decision and the next action. And if you start living in the present, instead of in any other timeframe, you will always be successful. It has to happen.
Absolutely. Something that I’ve heard you mention on the Train Heroic podcast, which if you’re a coach or trainer, you should absolutely go check that episode out. It’s extremely beneficial. But you mentioned that people criticized your business model early on and didn’t think that you could scale and grow. Could you explain that a little bit more? What was that like?
I came to this internet coaching space and I used to not claim to be the smartest business person in the world. I didn’t get into this wanting a million-dollar business or anything like that. I, 100% genuinely, wanted to get in this and I wanted to help people. And so, I started doing that and it’s pretty obvious that from a coaching standpoint, there are two ways you can grow revenue. You can take on more clients or you can charge more money. At some point, you lose time in a day if you’re taking on too many clients. And at some point, there’s a point of diminishing returns as to what people will pay.
So, the model, people told me, you have to automate some of it. Or you have to start working with people where you don’t interact with them. Well, I’m not a believer that macros are the real driver of success. I’m a believer that coaching drives success. And I think that if you surveyed all of my clients, the reason that they would tell you they’re as successful as they are, it’s because of the accountability they have with me. But the relationships that we built, they can text me 24/7 and I’ll text them back. We get on the phone every 10-12 days. We’re constantly talking. Protein, carbs, and fats are proteins, carbs, and fats, anybody could give you those numbers but finding out why you have a mental hurdle as to why you can’t implement, that’s a real success. That’s real magic.
Everyone told me you have to automate and you have to do this and that. That never was my thing. I couldn’t wrap my head around it. And I remember vividly sitting in a room and I’ll say who it was. It was Pedro Schooley and Craig Valentine, super well-known fitness entrepreneurs. Both are very wealthy, very successful. They said, Hey, if I told you, you had to write a diet for everyone in this room, done in your head, you could do it. And I said, actually I think I couldn’t. That’s the thing, I’m so neurotic and I’m so meticulous with every prescription that I write that I could not do it. I would have to walk around and ask every single one of these people a hundred questions before I can attempt to write their individual prescription.
And I would feel really bad if I didn’t do it that way. In the internet model, you write one prescription and if 10 people see success out of a hundred, that’s great. And that’s not okay with me. I fully recognize people are spending their hard-earned money on this and I want to guarantee success. So, I think here we are today, and I’ve got a coaching staff of 10 people. I think I proved them all wrong.
Oh, absolutely. And how would you say you made that work? I’m assuming there was a lot of patience involved and you may take the slower route, in a sense.
Yeah, I would argue I gain slower than anybody. I’m a Gary V fanboy through and through and he preaches patience, and he preaches staying in your own lane. And this is the only way I know how to do it. So, even if I deviated from that and had an application that could have been successful, I would not have been successful with it because it’s not how my mind works. So, I stayed in my lane, I did it my way, and I continued to refine the approach. And I just started identifying people that I thought were good people. I get the question all the time about how I grew my staff. Honestly, for everybody that works for me, the first key thing they have to have is I really genuinely believe you’re a good person.
I can teach you the skillset, right? The nutritional knowledge that’s out there, it’s in textbooks. I have the application after 13 years. I can teach you that. I can’t teach you to be a good person and I can’t teach you to not be an asshole. And unfortunately, there’s a lot of really smart people that are just dickheads and they suck. They would suck as a coach and that wouldn’t be a fit for my team. Whereas you give me the nicest person in the world who was zero nutrition knowledge, I’ll take them because I can teach them the knowledge. They’re going to be an awesome person. They’re going to become a good coach.
That’s amazing. Yeah. We’re going to come back to that macros and coaching concept in a little bit, but you’ve mentioned before that you’re a Gary Vaynerchuk fanboy, and you’ve gotten to chat with him and Lewis Howes, and all these people who are fascinating and have had big impacts. What have you learned from them? What’s the biggest takeaway?
The cool thing with Gary is, I’m a big believer that, as I’ve said already a hundred times on this podcast, you’ve got to take action. And so, Gary was putting out his book a little over a year ago. And he was doing this book launch with Andy Frisella at 1st Phorm. There were going to be four VIP tickets available and you’re not going to want to miss this opportunity. And I vividly remember, man. I was coming down the escalator at Mandalay Bay and I get this email alert that the presale tickets are on sale and there are four of them and they were $5,000 a piece. And I never buy anything on my phone because I’m just sketched out about people getting my shit on the public networks.
But I was like, I’m doing it. And I bought it right then and there, didn’t think twice about it. $5,000 is a lot of money. I don’t care how much money you make, it’s still a lot of money. But I’m doing this, I have to be in a room with this guy. And so, what I was promised was this meeting with the four of us that bought VIP tickets with Andy and Gary for two hours and it was supposed to be from like 8:00-10:00 PM. Dude, we went from 8:00 PM to 2:30 AM. And the only reason it stopped at 2:30 is that we all had flights at 4:00 AM, leaving St. Louis. And so Gary over-delivered to a whole new level. And I think that if you just watch what he does, he gives everything away.
I’ve always been this believer and I’ve sat in mastermind settings and business settings where people ask me, how can I grow my business quickly? I tell them to find a way to make someone else’s day better, find a way to help somebody because, at the end of the day, business is about creating solutions. And if you can truly make someone understand that you care for them, and it has to be genuinely caring, right? You can’t bullshit them and be like, “oh, I care for you, but give me your money.” You have to literally give a shit. But if you genuinely go out there and you care about people, it’s going to come to you. I have the ability and I have the confidence that yes, I can deliver better than anybody because of the amount of time and effort I’ll put in.
But I’m also like you said, I’m out there, I’m constantly putting out content and I know you and I connected because you heard me on a podcast, you sent me an email. And it matters to me that if you send me an email, that I respond, and I respond with actual thoughts, not like, “Hey bro, thanks for the email. Talk later.” No, I don’t even remember what our interaction was, but I actually think it was something about this podcast. And I told you, whatever it is, you got to go do that one thing and just crush that one thing. And if you ever need me, email me again. And there’s actually a lot of relationships I started that way with people that have just reached out. And so, I don’t care how busy I get.
I’ll never be as busy as Gary Vaynerchuk and the fact that he can answer DMs on Instagram and messages on Facebook and pick up the phone and call people, if he can do that, we all could do it. So, there’s no reason we shouldn’t all be just over-delivering.
Oh, absolutely. I think when you reach out to somebody that you hear on a podcast and that you’re really fascinated by, if that person takes the time to write you back, it’s almost like your shot, right? Like you sent them this message that you didn’t think that they were going to respond to, but they did. And so now there’s a deeper connection there and you never know what that can turn into. I never thought that you’d be on the podcast so soon, but this is awesome. Jason Phillips is here, you know?
Yeah. It’s so funny that you say that because I think, well, who am I? Do you know? And I might always think like that. To me, this is just another dude from Florida. The notion that we email people and then we’re amazed that they respond because listen, if I email Gary, I’m still amazed if he responds because of who he is and what he does, but it’s like, man, we’re all human beings, right? Whether you’re Gary Vaynerchuk worth almost a billion dollars or somebody that’s got a net worth of $10, it doesn’t matter. We’re all human beings. We all should be on this earth trying to deliver positivity.
My gift is clearly in the nutritional world. And so, if I’m not using that gift to pay it forward, then it’s pointless to have it. I’m so humbled by the opportunities to meet cool people, to see the success that comes with it, that I can’t picture living life a different way. That’s what I do.
I think it comes back to that thing we were talking about before we started recording about planting the seed for people. Me hearing a couple of sentences from you, even as simple as that might be, for me that led to a variety of different things, like a rabbit hole of action. And you never know what that might be for somebody. But it’s cool to know that by saying hello, by asking somebody how they’re feeling, how their day was or whatever, you could do something for them that you might not see right away, but it’s a good feeling that you were a part of it in some way. And you were able to plant that seed.
Yeah. One of the coaches that just started working for me, I’ll never forget, actually reached out and she inquired about my mentorship. And I didn’t even have to think twice because she was a current client. So, I knew who she was, the person she was. She asked if she was a good fit since she had never done this before. And I didn’t have to think twice. Right away, I knew she was an amazing fit. Because she’s such a quality individual. And she told me, your belief in me is what really drove me to think I could do this. And so, just that simple act of giving someone your belief in them.
That’s what drove her and now she works for me, and she sent me an email this morning to thank me for giving her the best career she could ever have. And that one sentence was the catalyst to all of this for her. And that’s amazing.
That is amazing, man. Let’s touch on the macros and coaching concepts that we did before. What you said, I absolutely agree with because with the numbers and all those things, I know you’ve talked about how the online calculators aren’t like the end all be all, but essentially you could get a start from searching up all this information for free, right? We know there’s so much out there, even a lot of the stuff that you’ve talked about in other podcasts, but it’s the mental hurdle of, why am I not doing this? Why am I not taking the next step? So, when somebody comes to you for nutrition coaching, what are some things that you’re digging into?
So, my biggest issue with calculators, is that there’s a limited number of variables that you can take into account with a calculator. If I was to try to build a piece of technology, it would have to be predicated on variables, right? It’s very much an “if this, then that” scenario. And all that’s all well and good, but there are so many variables that are not quantifiable, they’re qualitative. And so your online calculator doesn’t know your previous metabolic history. It doesn’t know if you have a metabolic adaptation. It doesn’t know if you’ve previously had an eating disorder. It doesn’t know your relationship with food. And those are all things that have to be considered in the manner in which you implement. So, the best example I can give anybody is, let’s take the average 150-pound female who wants to lose some weight.
Put her in an online calculator. She works out three to four times a week. It spits out 2200 calories for weight loss. And that’s great. Like that’s not a terrible starting prescription, by the numbers. But what you don’t know is that her current intake is 1000 calories. In college, she had an eating disorder because she was a gymnast. And she never really recovered. She binges twice a week, but on average, her calorie intake is like 800-1000. Now, all of a sudden, is that 2200 number applicable? And of course, it’s not. It’s more than double her intake, it doesn’t take into account her food. How do you necessarily get her to implement? Because those three numbers can make her massively obsessive. If she misses the numbers by two grams, she could completely freak out. So, the strategy has to become completely different.
That’s why I feel like so much of what’s out there is so inadequate and I think that’s where my coaching model has come into play. I’ve gone so far as to say, I’m not a nutritionist, I’m a nutrition coach. And I emphasize the words, nutrition coach, super hard. And my certification that comes out in July of this year revolves around becoming a nutrition coach.
That’s amazing. Yeah. And what do you think it is about that word? Between coach versus consulting versus nutritionist. Why is that so profound?
I think that coaching involves working with an individual and understanding what individuals need, understanding what makes them tick, what can potentially set them up for success, but at the same time, what can set them up for failure? I think that if you’re not understanding these things, you’re not really working with a client. You’re working with a subset of feedback from that client.
That’s amazing, man. Now, you said something, and I think this is from the Train Heroic podcast as well, but you were talking about extreme performance versus extreme aesthetics and how you can’t have both. And I want to tell you a huge pet peeve of mine. Something that really gets under my skin is when people will watch the athletes on the CrossFit Games and take a look at the females, and be like, “oh, they look like a man.” What the hell goes through somebody’s head to say something like that? And what I’ve been able to distil that down to is that the person watching obviously values aesthetics. And they don’t understand that the person on the other end of the screen, the athlete, they value extreme performance.
That is not a concern for them. I’m sure people deal with body image issues because people are talking about it, but at the same time, they’re two completely different goals. I feel like the level of competition in CrossFit keeps going up and up, and more people are dropping off. There are people who are realizing that they don’t want to commit to full-time training and recovering and getting ready for regionals. That’s not a part of their way. And they’re discovering that their why is, I want to look good naked. I want to breathe heavily. I want to sweat a lot.
And I want to feel like I’m athletic. And I think what happens is, a lot of times when people first started CrossFit, they did have this desire that they wanted to achieve a certain type of aesthetic and that need has almost gone unmet and unfulfilled. So, at some point, after maybe a year, two years, three years, you start to think like, I’ve been doing this for a while, why am I not looking the way that I want to? And there’s nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. So, I’m curious when you come across these people, how do you help somebody find that nice balance between aesthetics and performance?
I think it starts with a conversation. It starts with exactly what you just said: creating a level of education. You’d be shocked. We get tons of inquiries every day from people that want to work with us. And there’s a spot in my intake forms that says, please describe your goals and detail. And a lot of what we get is, “I want to lose weight and increase performance.” And if you’ve ever been to one of my seminars or you’ve heard my seminar video online, that’s one of the very first things I say. In weight loss, like physiology states, you have to be in a caloric deficit. For performance, you have to be in at minimum caloric maintenance, but likely caloric surplus. So, now, from a very fundamental understanding of physiology,
you’ve just told me that you want to do two things concurrently that required two completely different stimuli.
And that just doesn’t work. So, when I work with a client I ask, which do you want more? Which do you want now and which can we put on hold? And then that’s where I introduce the concept of nutritional periodization. And that involves peaking for competition, understanding the different times of the year that can be body composition priority. For instance, right now, the Open. Today it’s Friday, it’s officially the second day of the Open. And if you’re not prioritizing recovery and fuel, you’re crazy. If you’re living in a calorie deficit this time of year, you’re just asking for decreased performance and it will show up in the workouts. But if I’m working with somebody that wants better aesthetic and performance, right now the next five weeks is all performance.
Then we’ll take a period of time and we’ll recover them, and then we’ll go into an aesthetic phase.
And so you get the clients to understand that you understand their goals. I 100% hear them. I think they’re valid. I want to work with you on them but understand that I’m also looking out for your health. I’m also looking out for your performance, which you’ve also articulated to me as important. Let’s prioritize the performance right now because this is the time where we can, and then let’s work on the body and you will have the best of both worlds. It’s that connection with the client. It’s the coaching, that I’ve talked about. It’s really understanding your work with them and explaining to them and helping them understand. Because another phrase that I began claiming this year is ‘education drives compliance.’
And I think that the one thing most people don’t do is take the time to educate their clients. When you educate your client as to the why, as to why we’re doing this almost all the time, they will get on board and give it 100%. Let’s do this. And then we get success.
Absolutely. When we take this back to that ‘one thing,’ right? What is the one thing you think that people could do to get closer to their nutrition goals, whether that might be performance or aesthetics or somewhere in the middle? What is that first step?
The first thing is self-awareness and I say that on two ends of the spectrum. Number one, take a step back and revisit the conversation we just had. What do you really want? Understand that if by you telling me you want better body composition, absolutely above everything else, that’s your number one goal. Then you’re also saying, whether you’re verbally saying it or not, you care less about performance than aesthetics. And so, get very self-aware with the fact that you just said that. And if that’s cool, great. Just understand what you’re setting yourself up for. But also get self-aware into your relationship with food and what’s really holding you back right now. And then ask, what’s one thing we can do to move forward?
But until you’re self-aware and you know what holds you back, that one thing really exists for you. Because to some people, they’re immune to it. They think they live perfectly. I don’t know what my one thing is.
Right? That is so huge, man. Let’s say that to achieve that body composition, you have to cut down on a certain type of workouts that you’re doing. Maybe you’re not working out as much, for example. But at the same time, you have to make that decision at that point about the way to make the best use out of your time and to achieve the highest results. Technically, I might have to cut down at a day of working out or two days of working out. Am I willing to do that? Because that is essentially the cost.
Which is blasphemy to most people listening to this. I would have to work out less to lose? And the answer is actually yes. That’s another rabbit hole that people are still afraid to go down. But yeah, again 100% and it comes down to self-awareness, right? What are my goals? What if your desire in the gym supersedes your desire to lose weight? That’s another self-awareness piece. And that’s totally cool. No one’s going to think anything worse of you for saying my desire is to potentially just have fun and be with my friends in the gym on a day-to-day basis. That’s an awesome goal. There are a lot of people in this world that could benefit from that as a goal.
But if that’s your goal, also say that potentially you’re not willing 100% to do what it takes to get to your goals. And so, it’s always understanding what your goals are, what your actions mean, and what you’re articulating to yourself. And that’s where that huge self-awareness piece comes in.
I love that, man. Let’s go down that rabbit hole of having to sometimes work out less, if you are trying to lose weight, how exactly does that work?
So, the biggest thing we’ve got to understand is that in Western civilization, we’ve gotten to this ‘more is better’ type civilization. And so, some working out was good. Creating some caloric deficit is great. Well then, let’s just go all in. Let’s create this huge deficit and get these big body composition changes and it’s going to happen even faster. And it’s going to be more pronounced. In theory, that’s awesome. But in practical application, what we see is the body actually goes towards a metabolically adapted scenario, an overtrain scenario, or an inability to produce hormones scenario. And so, what we see, specifically with CrossFit, the demands are super intense. It’s a very large central nervous system component.
And in a world that doesn’t prioritize nutrition, recovery, or sleep, we’re in an environment where there’s been a severe lack of recovery and that’s actually causing the body to go into some sort of defence mode.
That’s a very oversimplified version as to what it really is, but in that defence mode, that’s where our bodies are actually holding on to body fat to survive versus actually living in normal metabolic processes, burning off that fat as a by-product of being at a deficit, because the depth is too extreme. The demands of life are too extreme and that’s where our bodies don’t change. So, when you see someone and tell them to take a week off. And their abs are better after a whole week off. The way I’ve started explaining it is called it bridging the gap, and the gap is what I’m identifying as your current intake and your output. There’s absolutely a gap there. And finding success is perfecting that gap, but most people need to close that gap.
For most people, the gap is far too big. I would argue 90% of people that come to me, the simplest solution is to eat a little bit more. But then there are 10% of the people that need to back off to the volume of training or perhaps the intensity of training.
So, you do think that a lot of people are under eating?
I would argue 90%. That’s a conservative number. I could argue 95 to 97%.
And you’re saying this even for people who are trying to lose weight, they’re probably under.
This is anybody in general, regardless of what their goal is coming to me.
Wow. So, the first step to figuring that out is, I’m assuming, getting it down on paper, logging what you’re actually eating.
Yeah. So, when I do a seminar, it usually comes up about halfway through and I’ll stop. I say, if you heard me ramble all day and you hated everything, please take this one thing with you. And I’ll say the same thing for the podcast. If you get nothing else out of today, create that self-awareness. Go home, log your food for five days, put it into an app like MyFitnessPal, and figure out how many calories you are taking in. How many proteins, carbs, and fats are you taking in? Are you taking in fibre? And how much water are you drinking? Because that can be a really good stage to move you forward and create success. But if you don’t know those things, you have no ability to move you forward.
Right. That’s the base. You could be getting headaches and things like that because maybe you’re not drinking enough water. You think you’re drinking enough water, but you don’t really know until it’s actually down on paper.
It’s like a standard guy that wants to gain weight. Okay, cool. Well, you need to eat more. But bro, I eat a lot. And then you look at bro’s food log and he didn’t eat all day, but he had pizza. He eats 1600 calories. My girlfriend eats more than you.
Yeah. That’s funny, man. All right, cool. So, I want to switch gears a little bit and get a little more personal with my version of rapid-fire questions. What is something that you think most of us take for granted?
Time. Absolutely nothing is promised to us in this world, but I think that people are so willing to sleep in and accept starting their day later. I think they’re willing to sit in front of the TV and accept I don’t “have enough time.” Anyone out there that ever used that excuse for me, I would time log your day and I would find your hours where you can be more productive. I just think we like to take it for granted.
Is that why you would you’ve considered yourself an efficiency whore?
I’m such an efficiency whore. My assistant is blown away by the ridiculous lengths I will take to make sure I’m efficient. I can achieve more in a day than most people because I value every second of every day. It actually scares me, I mean physically scares me, I’m so emotional about this, to wake up after 6:30 in the morning,
I’m so scared that I’m going to miss something. I got FOMO like a motherfucker, but I’m so scared that someone else is going to do more than me, in a good way. I hope there’s someone out there hustling and grinding and kicking my ass because that’s what’s going to move me. I know there’s a lot to get done and I also know there’s a lot of people that need help and I was that person one time. And if I’m not out there creating content and delivering it to those people, then they’re getting a disservice. And that scares me too.
Now, was that something that was learned over time? Or was this always the case?
Oh yeah, 100% man. And this is the first time that I ever said it publicly, so this is a good first podcast, but one thing nobody knows about me, I am a lazy motherfucker. If left to my own devices, I would sleep on the couch all day, 100%. But the reality of the difference is I found my passion and I’m so passionate, that supersedes any desire to just lay on the couch. Absolutely. It’s really funny. It’s really funny. If you ask Gary Vaynerchuk, he says the same exact thing. He’s so lazy by nature, but he also knows what needs to get done to be successful. And we just choose to do what needs to be done versus what we want to do.
Yeah. Awesome, man. Now, what’s the best advice that you’ve ever received?
Oh man, that’s a tough one. Probably patience. Be patient and it all comes back to patience, in every walk of life. There’s a video on my YouTube channel that I put up this past Thanksgiving, where two years ago I was flat broke. I was overdrawn in my bank account. I couldn’t even afford a cup of coffee. I was on a ski trip with my girlfriend. I remember thinking, I’m so petrified that I wasn’t going to be able to buy her dinner on Thanksgiving night because I had no money. And for some reason over the holiday, I had a check clear. So, I had just enough money to get through that trip. But the weird part, I never questioned what I was doing because I had just left the corporate job.
And I was just starting going all-in on the coaching and thinking, this is what I’m going to do for the rest of my life. And I didn’t question it. It’s a patience game. I got to keep doing what I’m doing. The same goes with my clients and my clients that are patient are the most successful. The people that just do what they know is right. Do what you know is right without the expectation of an outcome. I think that so many of us gauge the validity of our actions based on some sort of perceived expectancy of an outcome. And I don’t believe that’s accurate. You think, if I do this workout, I’ll lose two pounds. No, do the workout because you’re supposed to do the workout. Like if you gain a pound cool, but no big deal.
You knew you were supposed to do that workout as part of your plan, and you did it. And I think that’s what we all have to start living in the now and doing what’s right without the expectation of an outcome. I think that’s like the real definition of patience.
Yeah. I really like hearing about the struggles, barriers, and obstacles from people who have been through it and they’ve overcome it. And something that I think about that previous guests has mentioned this on the show before, and I’ve also seen Ben Bergeron highlight this a lot is if your thoughts were on a loudspeaker, would you be proud of what’s going on? How exactly are you talking to yourself? So, I’m curious, what does your internal self-talk sound like when you’re going through something rough or a struggle or an obstacle.?
I think it all comes back to remembering why I’m doing what I’m doing. And that’s so cliche. I almost hate saying it, but that really is the crux of everything for me, man. I remember I just came back from the trip where I was in Vegas and one of my employees got a text message from his client about a success. And I was like, isn’t it cool? There was a smile on his face. And he lit up and like, I don’t care how rough it was that day. I mean, talking to you today, I’ve been on two six-hour flights in 36 hours and two, four-hour buys in that same 36 hours.
So, I don’t care how tired I am today. I don’t care what’s going on in life. The opportunities I’m afforded in this life and the fact that I’m alive and living and reaching people, man, that’s epic. The odds of even being a human being are super low. And so, I always really try to fall back on that. It doesn’t mean it’s easy. I’m not sitting here saying to everyone out there struggling that it’s easy, man. Just think about your why, it’s hard. But at the end of the day, when you find peace, you find solitude, and you find the act and that gets you out of a funk, it’s always that same thing. You just have to find a way to manifest that one thought.
Right. And I think something important to touch on, you said that it’s cliche, but usually what I found is cliche advice is the stuff that you actually somehow always come back to. When you heard it, maybe it didn’t resonate or it wasn’t relevant to whatever problem you were trying to solve. Maybe it didn’t quite click with you, but you come back to that.
There’s a reason it became a cliche. The reason it got used as many times as it did, is that it probably has some truth. It probably has some validity.
Absolutely. Yeah. Something to think about is if you were to listen to even this podcast, and then you were to listen to it again in six months. This is something that I did with yours. I listened to the Train Heroic podcast six months later and I got completely different insights out of it. I was paying attention a little bit more.
That’s really cool. I think the timing of the advice that you get can absolutely be important.
Awesome. So, what are three things that you think of more than the average person?
Oh, man. Lack of time. So, my biggest asset is time. My biggest fear is not having enough time. The second one would be body composition and body image. So, that goes back to the former anorexic in me. And number three would be a legacy. I’m beginning this shift in my life. I’m 32-years-old and I’ve helped thousands of people at this point. I think that if we closed the book tomorrow if I passed away tomorrow, the legacy would be that I helped a lot of people. And that’s really cool. I want to revamp the way we do everything, nutritionally speaking. I want to be the pioneer for the model. I want my coaching model to be the model that’s been used for hundreds of years beyond me. I want to lay a foundation where we don’t go through generations of really shitty information.
And I think that what we’re seeing in today’s society is a result of what was put out by the previous generation. And our previous generation focused on food quality without a quantity emphasis. And unfortunately, that’s a bad application. The previous generation talks about low fat and low carb as if they were the only tool in the toolbox when in reality, it’s one tool and there have to be several tools used for several different purposes. The notion that I would be remembered as somebody that helps people is very awesome. The notion that I can truly leave something that’s going to propel the next generation to such a higher degree of success, gets me going. It’s something I think about all the time.
So, piggybacking off of that legacy, let’s say I was to give you a few billion dollars and you had a staff of 40 people, right? These 40 people can be the top performers, top thinkers, the greatest people for whatever it is that you’re recruiting them for. And you want it to use that to make some type of change, what would you do with that?
I would give it to the people that are currently investing in education and allow them to learn the application. What I mean by that, I feel like there’s this a big butting of heads in the public right now, should I go to college, or should I get in the real world? In the entrepreneurial space, a lot of entrepreneurs say fuck college. If you got to hustle and you think you’ve got a good product, just go out in the real world, take your lumps and do it. I think, here I am dude, 13 years since my first client. And the reason I am where I am is that I have an application and the reason I win and the reason I’m successful is that we have an application.
And so, I would take that money and I would give it to the people that are investing in education because they’ve shown a keen interest in doing what they’re doing and a clear passion for doing what they’re doing. I’d give them the money to go out and live the application piece because once they get the application with the education, they’re going to be the ones that leave the legacy of providing for the next generation. When application and education meet it will be a beautiful, beautiful thing.
That’s amazing. And I’m glad you brought that point up with education. I’m curious, what do you feel like now, and maybe in a couple of years, what is the most efficient way to get an education nowadays? Is it going to college? Is it doing it online? There’s a lot of mentors that you may look up to who are putting out information online. Is it going and learning in person from mentors’ seminars? What do you feel is the future of education?
So, it’s different for everybody, I think. So, true story. When I met Gary V, he had a video out there and he said, fuck Harvard, give me $50 grand and I’ll teach you everything you need to know about business. And so, I called his bluff. So, when I met him, I said, “Hey, I got a check in my pocket. It’s made out for $50,000 to you. Let’s do this.” And he was like, write the curriculum. Let’s go. And he was dead serious. He said, go home, write the curriculum, and let’s do it. And the offer is still open, right? My life has been insane. I don’t think I could shut down my life and actually go spend a year with him. But he was a man of his word. And so, I think that there are two different kinds of people.
If I spent $50 grand with Gary, I would absolutely learn, and I would take action because that’s where I am in my life. When I was 24 years old, and I hired my first business coach and my first mentor, he told me to do all these things. And I thought because I was paying him to be part of my staff, or my guru team, that I was immediately going to get results. I didn’t take the action. And so, I think it really depends on what’s your maturity level and what’s your ability to take action. There are some people out there that need to go learn, and with learning, they’ll develop confidence and they’ll go out in the real world temperament. But then there are some young guys that are hustlers,
they’re going to go out there and they’re going to implement and they’re ready to take their lumps.
So, I’m not sure that there’s one model that’s going to benefit everyone. I think that you’re going to see in the next 15-20 years, you’re going to see diversity in the routes that people go. I think the real-world applications will always win in terms of long-term success. I don’t think that you look at any mega billionaires and mega-successful people, they got to where they are with real-world application, but some of them have very fundamental levels of education and some don’t. And I think that’s the same always exist in life.
I agree with you because it is a different game. Let’s say you want to be a high school teacher. There are certain protocols that you’re going to have to follow. If you want to be a lawyer there, you can’t be a lawyer without actually going to law school. So, you have to understand the game that you’re playing. But I think that we also hold information in such high regard. People can listen to this podcast. People can listen to any other podcasts. And I guarantee, Mike Bledsoe said this, if you listen to five episodes and it doesn’t change your life, come to me and I’ll give you your money back.
It’s just one of those things, are you aware enough to tackle that application and that action? Are you enlightened enough to take action on that? And I think that takes some time for people to find.
Yeah. I mean, I could lay out the blueprint to all of your success right now. And me having that knowledge in my head doesn’t do us any good unless you go and take action on it. And when a client is successful with me, I always congratulate them, but I always thank them. And they say, but you did it for me. I didn’t do shit. All I did was put words on paper, you did this. And it’s very freeing when the clients really understand that. Because it’s not me, it’s my guidance. Absolutely. They’re the ones that take action. They’re the ones who took inspired action. And I think without that, there’s no success.
Yeah, definitely. And the closing remark on that topic, is you’re right, it is going to be more diversified. Right now there’s this taboo aspect still attached if you don’t go the college route and you decide to go learn from mentors or whatever it might be. It’s still not the norm. But I think you’re right. There is going to be more diversification and it’s going to be more socially accepted.
Which I love personally because if anyone asks me how I would have done it if I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t have gone to school.
Yeah. Well, what would you have done instead with that time?
I would have gone out and I would have just learned to train and I would have applied. Let’s say we spent the $50 grand on school, which is pretty appropriate. I would’ve spent that $50 grand hiring every coach in my space and learning from them. I would’ve learned what I liked as a client, what I didn’t like as a client. I would have asked them 10 million questions as to why they were doing what they were doing. That’s the other thing if you hire a coach and they won’t explain themselves as to why they’re doing what they’re doing, fire them right away. You are absolutely entitled to that information as a client. That’s one of my pet peeves. And I hear that all the time when I got clients from competitors in the space. That drives me nuts.
But that’s how I would’ve done it, man. I would’ve hired all the top dogs. I would have gone to all the conferences, but just showing up doesn’t matter. You’ve got to show up and be someone and do something.
Yeah. And you’re right with that. Because you look at it as an investment, right? That $50 grand, the colleges still have a business to run as well. And now it’s like that same $50 grand, maybe you could go to a seminar for $5,000 and then you could do online education for another $10,000. And then you could diversify in so many ways, but now you have a choice to go tackle whatever sparks your curiosity.
Well, we’ve all heard the quote, “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.” And I think there’s a lot of truth to that in today’s society. if you’re one of those people that can be enough of an extrovert that you can show up somewhere and you’ll camp out outside of someone’s room to meet them. If that’s you and that’s your personality and you’re that much of a hustler, take that opportunity because having that person in your network is going to be so many things. The fact that I can email Gary V, and I wouldn’t call us friends by any means, but I would say he probably knows who I am to this day because of the conversations we’ve had. And the fact that I have priority in his mailbox to some degree,
that was worth every penny of the $5,000 I spent to be at that event that night. And so, it’s opportunity cost, right? If you want to put a business term on it, to me, it’s opportunity costs.
Yeah. I totally agree with you. Let’s say you’re still a billionaire, right? And you could give two to three books to every person in the nation right now. What two to three books would you choose and why?
This is where the world’s going to hate me. Dude, I can’t tell you the last book I’ve read. I don’t learn from reading. I’m really trying to like rack my brain as to what the last book was that had an impact on me. That’s a bad question for me because I don’t read. I consume my content today on YouTube, to be fair.
Okay. What type of content on YouTube would you say has had the most impact on you?
I think Gary Vaynerchuk is obviously number one because it’s not just motivation without application. He’s teaching you application within motivation. I love Eric Thomas, but Eric Thomas is motivation, there’s no application in what he’s doing. So, if you just need to like get yourself out of the fog, go listen to Eric Thomas. But if you need to really learn application as to how to move forward, he is not the one for you. I think Lewis Howes is pretty good. I think he’s getting better. But obviously, Gary is my number one. I mean I tell every single person, it’s not fiction. Anyone that’s run into me can tell you, I tell everyone to consume this guy’s content because if you got to every successful person right now,
the world’s attention is on social media or it’s on our smart devices. It may not be on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram or YouTube, but it’s on our smart devices. So, if you’re not playing in that domain, you’re not getting the attention of your target customer, regardless of what business.
And the truth is, and everybody would be surprised to know this, I fucking hate social media. If I didn’t have to post on Facebook and Instagram, I would be so much happier. But the reality is I understand that people’s attention is there. I also understand that by me not expressing those thoughts to the world, I’m holding out on somebody’s success and that’s a big driver as to why I actively participate in social media.
Definitely. And I think what you said, that question isn’t totally irrelevant too, because books are just a way to package it all together, right? You’re still using certain things to learn and have somewhat of an influence on you. It’s just in a different medium. It’s video, instead of audio or texts. So, the bigger picture is having the self-awareness to know what connects with you the most. A lot of people say that they don’t read because they can’t get past the first chapter. They read too slow, whatever. But if you connect with, audible and audiobooks or you connect with podcasts, that might be your ticket to constantly learning and doing.
Yeah. And I agree. I think it’s understanding how you like to consume content best. And again, don’t listen to anyone out there that tells you they know what’s best for you.
Definitely, man. So, do you have a morning routine? And if so, what does look like?
I do. I wake up, grab Baxter, my dog, get in the car, and go to Starbucks. That’s the very first thing I do every day, he and I go. And I love that brief interaction with him. It’s such a reminder of all things positive. I love my dog. It’s also 15-20 minutes to clear my head. And to everyone saying, you can just make coffee at home, that drive to Starbucks, that time in the drive-through the interaction with individuals that are working, they’re so nice. And I make it a point to always be very nice. And that way of starting my day, man, it’s so positive. And then I come home and I write in The Five Minute Journal. I talk about what my affirmation for the day is.
I write three things I want to achieve that day. I write three things I’m thankful for that day. And then I get to work. Recently, I’ve moved to the east coast. And so, the last podcast I was on, I was in Arizona. Now I’m in Tampa, Florida. And so my days used to start at 7:00 AM. Now, I start around 10:00 AM. I actually spent a lot of time in the morning writing content. I find that I think the most clearly and I write the best in the morning. So, that is my content time. I’m a very conscious time blocker. So, 7:00-10:00 AM is writing, 10:00-5:00 PM is client calls, 5:00-6:30 is my workout, 7:30 to 9:30 is emails. At 9:30, all the technology is off and it’s family. And that’s it like that’s every single day for me, it doesn’t change.
That’s amazing, man. That’s solid. Is there something you feel like you don’t get asked enough about and something that you wish people would ask you more about?
Actually, this is probably one of the best interviews I’ve ever done to be completely fair because I think that a lot of people will get to see the method behind my madness. I think that I’m pretty well known for being a driven person and a person that will work my face off and do all those things. I don’t ever want people to think it’s just a hustle because I was born a hustler. I wasn’t. I have this notion that I have to add value. And I want to use those words very clearly because I think that in the last year, I’ve seen those words get confused with the word “giving,” and giving and adding value are two very different things.
And so, I always want to make sure I add value to people’s lives, but I don’t want to just give people things because they may not be received and may not be used. And then it’s a whole waste of time. But I do want to make sure that I’m adding value. So, whatever it is I perceive that you’re going to need, I want to help with. I think that’s something that I’m glad has come out with this podcast.
That’s huge, man. I appreciate that. What would you say a coach or athlete should take away from this podcast? If it was that one thing, how can they make themselves better today by listening to this?
Understand the way that you want to do it. Understand the things you want to do and the things you don’t want to do. And stop doing the shit you don’t want to do. Right now, commit to stop doing the shit in your business that you do not want to do. I was at a business conference and this guy is like, I hate writing training programs in Trainerize. I love writing them in the body of an email. I’m like, why the fuck are you using Trainerize then, just write them. I guarantee you, your client is paying you for your knowledge, not because there’s some pretty picture from Trainerize.
They created a relationship with you and they want your knowledge and the training program. So, write it in the body of an email and he was so caught up in what all the other critical gurus are pitching and I’m like, bro, do it your way.
You’ll be so much happier. And we’ve connected since then. He’s way happier, he’s way more successful. So, anyone that’s out there, coach or client, stop doing the shit that you hate. Like everybody has their own lane to success. Clearly, mine was the way that everybody told me I couldn’t do it. And now I’m looking back at them with a middle finger in the air, but I’ve always done it my way. I’ve always encouraged the clients to do it their way. My business services over 600 unique clients. and I would argue that all 600 of them are doing it a different way. And that’s the beauty of it to me.
Absolutely. And this reminds me of, I think the difference between tactics versus strategy. And I think that most people are chasing tactics so freaking hard. It’s insane. Of course, I’m a tactic chaser too, and there are times for that, but very early on, I realized there definitely has to be an emphasis on strategy. And how I see that playing out today is I do have people that ask me about what I’m up to and how I did what I did, even though I’m still learning. I’m still in the process. You’re better off asking somebody else. But the questions that I do get are like, who made your website or what time do you post on social media?
Or these little things that out of all the questions, that is not what you should be worrying about. There are so many other bigger picture things that I think that people could place their attention on. It’s just that self-awareness aspect that has to come first. I think between tactics and strategy.
I love that you use the word tactics because I hate the marketing world right now because it’s so tactical. I think that so many people get caught up in things. There are so many internet marketers selling you a hundred sales funnels to get a client into your thing. And then this other person is telling you, you have to do it with this, pulling it through your WordPress site, or like if it was the nutritional world, that you have to automate, because you’re not going to be able to scale and work with enough clients or standardize or whatever, and those are all out there.
And I’m sure there’s a lot of people that have been successful with those things, but it goes back to staying in your lane and doing it the way you want to do it and giving up the shit you don’t want to do. Your tactics will find you and you should be able to identify them because they’re the things that you want to be doing on a day-to-day basis because if you actually want to be doing it, that’s what you’ll do. If you don’t want to be doing it, there’s little chance that you stick with it for a long time.
That’s really profound, man. Awesome. So, how can we support your journey? Where can we find you? Where can we point people to?
Yeah. I appreciate that. My website is phillipsnutrition.com. I do post content there a minimum of once a week, usually twice a week. My social media is Jason Phillips on Facebook, @JasonPhillipsfit on Instagram. And I’ll say this, it’s just like I said earlier, reach out to me. I promise I will respond. I can’t say I’ll respond that day, but I absolutely respond to everybody. That means the world to me, the fact that you’re taking time out of your day to reach out to me. I absolutely will do the same in reciprocation. If I can help, please let me know. I get a lot of value out of that.
That’s amazing, man. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I really appreciate it. This was such a fun conversation.
It was great, man. I appreciate you having me on and thank you to everybody that took the time to listen. I appreciate the hour out of your day
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