Know what to charge for online coaching


Show Notes: 

(00:59): Charging your coaching services 
(08:38): Charge what you’re worth
(15:46): Basis for charging your clients
(22:34): Know your value 
(27:22): How much should you charge for your coaching services? 
(29:50): Effectivity of free coaching 
(36:16): Creating content to promote your business 
(40:23): Finding ideal clients 
(44:11): How to make a unique offer

Quotes: 

β€œI think knowing the market and understanding what you’re worth, and then not being afraid to ask those are all normal, normal things.”- Blake 

β€œI think the local market is so rich in terms of not just money wise, but they are so rich in terms of opportunity.” – Blake 

β€œI think we’re in this new phase where this hybrid model is going to be it.”- Blake 

β€œYou can be humble and, like, have humility, when you’re doing it come from an honest place.”- Misbah 

β€œThe market is really important before you set your prices.”- Blake 

β€œThe lower end doesn’t offer nutrition, it just gives you programming.”-Blake 

β€œEverybody’s a little different.”- Blake 

β€œCreating content is too much work to be promoting something you don’t really believe in.”- Blake

β€œI think it’s good to be able to figure out what someone wants.”- Misbah 

β€œThe other way to use content is to nurture existing people.”- Misbah

Bite-sized action items to go from dreaming to streaming your podcast.


    Transcript:

    Misbah Haque  00:00

    All right, what’s up? Thank you for hanging out today. My name is Misbah Haque, and I am here with Blake Scheidt. We are very excited to talk about a couple of different things today, we were just talking about some stories that like our worst experience in terms of charging people, you know, almost nothing or pennies on the dollar for, you know, services rendered in fitness coaching. And I know for me when I started out, like, that’s the first thing that you start to do as an Indian kid is do the math, you’re like, Alright, how can I make a full-time living out of this? Can I tell my parents that I’ve been doing this? And it was very discouraging when you’re like, Oh, the best is making this much. I know nothing. How am I going to you know, I can’t, nobody’s gonna pay me this much. And I need 50 people, 60 people to pay me this on a monthly or weekly basis, or whatever it is. It’s a stressful scenario to be in. So I want to take some time kind of reflect on that today with Blake.

     

    Charging your coaching services 

    Blake  00:59

    We’ve all had to think through this and then rethink through this. And I feel like with how much things have even changed in the last couple of years with COVID. And, and how remote business has just taken off, even more, I feel like the value has changed even since I’ve started a couple of years ago. And the market. Like I remember, I remember in the middle of COVID OpEx. Like when they had big dogs at the time, I think their craft coaches now upped their prices in the middle of COVID. Because they could just see the value going up what they were offering. So So you know, this is just a question we’re all still trying to figure out. And I think knowing the market and understanding what you’re worth, and then not being afraid to ask those are all normal, normal things. But personally, when I started out, it was almost like, I don’t think I gave anything away for free. I think the first person I charged was 50 bucks. And that was for a month of unlimited remote coaching, which is like somebody should have somebody says stop me from doing. But yeah, but like I think and then I think the first couple people after that I charged 75 bucks. And I did that for like three or four months. And then I started working for a gym that wanted me to only have clients at that gym, and they were charging 250 to $300, depending on if you use their gym or off-site. So everybody but one person left and one that one person who really enjoyed working with me stayed on for the 250 for a couple of months. So that was kind of my journey, I’ve gone from charging $50 to $75 to then three months later charging $250. And I think you know when you have to give a cut to go to the gym, and you start realizing man I could have, I could have charged those people who were under me a lot more and made money. But I was too scared to you just start learning kind of how you need to think about these things before you launch a little bit more. But lessons learned, right? 100% So that was my first couple. How about you?

    Misbah Haque  03:00

    For me, man, like I am thinking back to because they definitely you know, I worked for a gym for a while were like, there were kind of set rates of what I would be making. But at the end of the day, after everybody gets their cut, it was probably maybe 4050 bucks a session or something like that, or even less 30. Right. But really where I the first memory that came to mind was when I did in-person or home training. Basically, I got into this crew where it was a neighborhood that was like, you know, a couple of miles away from my house. And this woman, she was like a lawyer, another woman was like a business executive. And this other woman did yoga, and I think it was the yoga instructor at the gym who connected us and they needed a trainer, but they didn’t want to go to the gym. Like all the classic things that like you know, at the time, that was just an everyday person trying to lose weight, wanting to get in some activity makes a lot of money works like awesome jobs, stuff like that. And I would go at 530 or 6 am three to four times a week to their house. And guess how much I would charge for this? How much do you think I charge Blake per head for this session was an hour long, like a boot camp type thing? And there were three people there. Yes, three people for some times, but three for the most part.

    Blake  04:23

    50 bucks per head?  $15.

    Misbah Haque  04:27

    Dude, I’m pretty sure at one point, I was like, oh, like as long as you guys throw in 515 for the whole thing. And I would do it for like, you know, 20 bucks, and I’d be happy for the night. Okay, that was pretty good. Like, I’m making 20 bucks for a class where I manage 20 people over here, right? So three people that are like, I’m doing this in at that time in my head. It was just like, Oh, here’s another 20 bucks. Here’s another 20 But then I realized especially in hindsight you’re like, bro, these people had so much money ain’t like the neighborhood they lived in, like this was in a woman’s house who had her whole basement, like a full-on basement where a part of it could be dedicated to this. And, you know, it just you could tell like they were well off and like this was, it’s not just about like judging that, but I realized, it’s about being like, Oh, this is valuable to you. I’m seeing how valuable it is for you because you’re crushing it in all these other areas of life. But it what seems to be really hard for you is that thing that at that time was easy for me like putting together workouts and making it fun adding music to it, things like that. And so that’s an example of an early offer that was thrown together real quick, that ended up being a couple of year thing I sustained for, you know, I would wake up at 530 Do that before going to the other gym, or school or whatever it was, and it wore on me after a couple of years. It was, it was an example of like, Oh, I knew it was gonna give me reps. And in my mind, I thought that like there would be more of a payoff here, oh, there’s gonna it’s gonna grow to 20 people or, you know, something crazy is gonna happen, they’re gonna pay me 10 times as more now. And, you know, that taught me though that like, eventually when I tried to pivot and you know, change up my style, or change up the offer completely, like, that wasn’t an audience that was receptive to that. So that was one of the first lessons teaching me that like, oh, you can have the best offer sometimes. But if your market isn’t ready for it, or they’re just if they’re not the right market for that solution, or that offer, it’s just it’s rolling a boulder uphill, and I’m sure it took me many years after that still have, you know, doing that before? kind of kicked in? But that was an early experience. How could How about you? Because I think that in-person offers like, especially if you’re doing remote in-person stuff, you do this really well. You capture them for the first couple of sessions, and teach them everything that you know, they might need to know. And eventually, you trying to get them into a remote setting. And that understanding is from day one, almost where it’s like, Hey, I’m helping you out here. And I think the local market is so rich in terms of not just money wise, but they are so rich in terms of opportunity that, like everybody’s looking for someone to help them along. But like, it’s just hard when you have to filter through Instagram, you know, you have to find someone you like, but you have someone who’s a real estate agent who’s like your mom’s cousin. Okay, now when it’s time for you to buy a house or sell a house. Hey, Mom, Oh, who’s that cousin, we have the who’s in the real estate industry. Like, you’re gonna do that sometimes instead of going through your Instagram to find someone. And so capitalizing on that early on, even if it’s $5 ahead, $10. That’s something ridiculous, right? People would just say yes to knowing Hey, this is giving me practice. And we were doing simple stuff, Blake, like so simple, you would laugh like it was so but they needed that. Who else is going to like that they’re not getting that on Instagram, I guarantee you like the types of stuff we were doing. They couldn’t follow along with certain stuff that you would see on Instagram, hence why I was there to break stuff down into slower parts so that there are people who actually are a starving audience for your offer that are in a 15-mile radius. But you have no idea. What do you think about that?

     

    Charge what you’re worth

    Blake  08:38

    I agree, as I was listening to you, I had a lot of thoughts, because you were saying some good stuff. But I think the big thing is you got to kind of know your context, right? So you brought me up? Well, my context is like, I do think hybrid, this idea of like maybe meeting with someone once or twice a week and then slowly getting them off ramped into remotes, or like maybe you do twice a week we meet this is all we do. And I need you to walk on the other days. And then next month, we’re going to meet one day a week, but I’m going to have you do these workouts on your own two or three times a week. And then you finally go fully remote. Here’s here’s why that model. So like the health and fitness industry kind of went through this. I think we’re in this new phase where this hybrid model is going to be it but basically, we went through you did everything one on one. That was kind of personal training, was it you booked all day as long as you can and you tried to just just kill yourself on the floor for eight to 12 hours. I’ve done it. It’s brutal. The hard part is it caps right? There’s only so many hours in the day and you’ll have so much energy. Then some people were like, well, this sucks. Let’s make more money, let’s do classes, and then you had to hit fit classes at the cross of the classes. And then people started realizing the price margins there can only get you so high and you’d have to have a certain amount of people in class before you can actually really make money on your overhead. because there’s more equipment now. And there’s more, I guess liability because you have more people. So all that kind of stuff. Right now we’re here where I think it’s this hybrid model. So it’s like, remote coaching came along. And it was really geared towards athletes, people who are already motivated, who already had a goal. And they really were self-motivated, but they needed someone to kind of create the blueprint, specifically for them, and the nutrition aspect and make and hold them accountable to that. But accountability really wasn’t even a big part of it, because they were already working out. Now people who are Gen pop want to do this. But the affordability for Gen pop to do 75 to $100 an hour for personal training is a really expensive long-term option. So the hybrid makes that first kind of two or three months as an investment, and people don’t have a problem investing if they No, it’s not going to be there forever, and it will pay off. So yes, so it’s like a really sweet offer. And so I’ve built a lot of my business kind of off of that, where I’ve just, I kind of look at it as you’re disciplined somebody in what they need, you’re getting them confident in the gym, and you go now here’s the problem if you’re someone like Misbah, and Misbah is like on the road, and he’s doing his own thing, he doesn’t work for a gym. So he doesn’t have that place where he’s doing that. You have to kind of think about what their movement will look like, what the price should be for your travel time, right? Because they’re not you’re going to them, they’re not coming to you, you might have to bring some of your own equipment. So there’s some different factors to think through. And this is back to our whole point of like, knowing your price thinking about those things, because you know, and here’s the other thing in context, lots of and I both kinds of come from both like kind of hustler backgrounds got to get here want to make big transitions, very risky. Not everybody’s built that way. Like the first gym, I I’ve worked for a couple of gyms, I guess the second gym I worked for where I really started kind of my career and doing this full time, I was the only one willing to go full time like I just put myself out there. And so for me, it became a sink or swim situation. So you’re either going to die or you’re going to swim and survive. For other people like that kind of like well, I need to make a certain amount of money before I can make this jump, they’re kind of slow, and it’s really easy to just make it go so slow. The benefit to that is that you can pick and choose your clientele, and you can pick your price so that you can slowly get there without the headache of I charge too little in the beginning because I didn’t want to lose the sale. And then I had to come behind that later and up the price of what I’m actually worth. And here’s the thing, most people who are in our situation, don’t do that for a character issue of that we meant to or we were lying, it was just that in the beginning, we were too scared to ask for what we were worth. And we or we didn’t think we were worth that or whatever it may be. And then we get down the road, we realize we are that good. And now we should for our time sake, we should do this. And we know the client feels that way to you to up the cost. It’s not a great feeling, it would be nice to avoid that if you can, but I get it like when you’re in a sink or swim situation like I was with three kids and a stay-at-home wife like you’re trying to take any client you’ll get. So 75 rocks felt like a lot of money. And I’ll work hard for that. But it’s um, it was very interesting to know that I could have started a lot higher than that because what I was offering was already better than that. And I didn’t know it at the time. 

    Misbah Haque  13:31

    That’s such a great way to look at it though. Because I feel like you do have to charge like almost nothing. So that you feel confident it’s not about other people, like they’re gonna kind of mirror what you’re feeling. So if you’re like, if takes you charging 50, you know, like 50% of what you think you’re worth for a while. Do that, because it’s better than nothing. Right. And so I do think that you mentioned a couple of lessons in that story that you told, one doesn’t create the expectation that this price is forever like you have phone companies, cable companies, streaming companies, foodstuff that goes up in price or down in price all the time. And a lot of it sometimes is based on timing, right? So as a coach, even if you are balancing another job, most likely, let’s say you’re working another job and you’re trying to do this, like you, you have the advantage of hey, I have a limited roster, I have limited time. Therefore, in order for this to make sense, I have to charge you this much that think about when you bring a mechanic or somebody to work on your stuff like, hey, look, the the the parts of what I’m trying to do for you is just this much alone. Then there’s the labor, you know, so you have to keep that in mind. And that’s very easy to do. It’s just that most people don’t think to do it because they’re kind of frazzled in the beginning when this conversation of making an offer deciding the price and closing a sale for the first time is happening. Yeah, so just enamored by happening, that you’re like, I don’t want to say anything or do anything that will repel this person away. But if I was to give the language it really is like, you can be humble and, like, have humility, when you’re doing it come from an honest place. Like, look, I’m just starting out excited test some things that I’ve been learning, I’m happy to share what some of those are with you. I don’t know how long I’m going to be doing this for or, you know, charging this price, but I want to make it a no-brainer for you. And so here’s what it is right now. And that way, you just framed it as an offer, or a special or a discount, instead of this is a price that you are grandfathering in the rest of eternity.

     

    The basis for charging your clients

    Blake  15:46

     Yeah, right, or it comes like or it feels like you came from behind a year later. And now you’re upping your price to something that feels so much more expensive, like, let them know out the gate, you should do this. Regardless, if you’re charging $100 or $300, you know, you should make them feel like they’re getting a deal. And so I always remind my clients of how much you know, I’ve paid coaches, or how much I’ve seen other parts of the market, because that way, they know like, Oh, there’s more expensive stuff out there, here’s the deal to like, we live in different parts of the country, you know, the cost per living is different, right? So you want to work with a coach, in California, it’s more expensive to live in California, they’re gonna charge 350 to $400, you know, for remote coaching, you can get maybe the same quality, you can tell your clients like, Hey, you can get the same quality with me and I live in Texas or Florida or somewhere, it’s maybe a little bit cheaper to live, and I only need to charge you 250 or 275. And so that does matter, that’s going to become more of swords, some people’s advantage and disadvantage, as you think about those things. And, you know, I have clients in Washington, you know, and what I charge them there compared to what they would get with another remote coach, there’s way more affordable. And they know that and they so they feel like they’re getting a great value for a really good price. So, so just making sure you’re communicating those things. And knowing the market is really important before you set your prices.

    Misbah Haque  17:15

    That’s so important. Because again, you could waste so much time. And I have done that, you know, pushing that boulder uphill, when all it took was a degree in focus, like move over here and ask this person instead. Yeah. And they’re like 10% more likely to say yes, that that’s a game changer right there something I will say that I found surprising because I had this belief. And it was almost like you realize, like, it could be a myth in some ways, right? Where a lot of it was in my head of how much I thought people how much I thought I was worth and what people would pay me until I was working with a company where the value was so like we were over delivering the branding, the packaging, everything was there, to where I had clients in Switzerland, Australia, Saudi like Japan, like places, you would never think that oh, in Poland, people can afford my rate, like it was expensive for them. Yes, but they paid my American dollar rate. And you know, at the time, my rate was 265 to 295 per month for remote coaching. And so the value if it is there if you can make it happen, yes. Not everybody in Poland or Italy could afford that. And so they didn’t, it would bring the top couple people who would. But it’s, it’s it begs the other question, which is, okay, most people aren’t there, you’re probably in a position where you’re trying to market to, I don’t know, lower to a middle class, everyday person, just like yourself a younger version of you, right? And unless you’re really rich already, you’re like, Okay, how can someone afford this just like me, who’s making a normal living wage in my area, the most affordable thing I think you could do is figure out how to make a productized service. And what I mean by that is, you know, having programs and templates written now, that do allow you to operate faster, allow you to customize and things like that faster. So you’re still offering a service, but there is a version of it. That is a product that is very intentionally designed. That’s why we pay for products, right? It’s solved, you know, that sponge, the smiley face sponge where you stick your three fingers in it. Yeah, it’s very easy to wash stuff like that scrub Daddy, I think it’s called or whatever. And they’re from this area, which is, I thought I thought it was cool. But that is a very specific product that solves a very specific thing. You know, when we’re like, I can’t believe somebody was even thinking of this. We’re overjoyed at that. So I think that you know, if you can figure out how to make a template, right, that still allows you to use that template to customize or make your job fair. faster, you can deliver a more personalized experience at a lower cost. If you are going from scratch, every single time you are baking the cake over, you’re picking out all your ingredients from scratch, by the laws of nature and time you physically can not handle as much. So you have to charge more, you have to charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars more, if you want to make anything near a normal living wage, right. So the sweet spot is a medium ground of like the, you know, it’s $80, membership, $100, membership, $50, membership, whatever you think your market can afford, like, I would say, starting out, I know people will say charge more than you think you should. Sometimes it’s charging a little bit less because again, you want them to feel like they’re getting a great deal. And you want it to be something that they can keep affording. So just like those classes that were doing or whatever, like they saw, they could do that for the year, I could pay five bucks, 10 bucks, whatever it is, even if this goes up, I can do it. So you need to set that vision if you because you’re going to need more volume you’re going to need instead of 20 clients, you might need 40 If you’re charging a $50 membership or $100 membership like her, you know what I mean? So based off your price, you got to do that math first. And then two, I think I did this a couple of I’ve done this at different points. But for the price that I think I want to make, right? Let’s say I’m like, Okay, I want to charge 75 per hour, I want to charge 75 for this session or this, you know, 75 a month, whatever it is for you that feels like a lot. List all the things that you think you would be able to really give for that month, right? And don’t go too crazy to where it’s like this is like, this seems unbelievable. Like how could you physically keep up with all of that, you know what I mean? Don’t make it unrealistic, right? But make it actually solve all the problems that it can potentially solve and see it for you that feels like a no-brainer. And adjust your pricing until it feels like oh my gosh, this is like I of course, why wouldn’t I do this, this is such a great deal. And it doesn’t have to be free for it to be a great deal. It can be priced at something low or medium for you. It’s just that the deliverables and the benefits and division, it has to over-deliver and has to actually match up to what you’re trying to charge. So that is a very quick way to start.

     

    Know your value 

    Blake  22:34

    I 100% agree. And I think if you can estimate to how much time things take you so then you pick up, you pick up the point price of how much you want to get paid for that time. So like I timed myself for every client that I programmed for, because I have a goal with their 30-minute console, and how much time I do to program from week to week, I want to get paid this amount for the hour. Let’s say it takes me an hour and a half worth of work per client, on average, right? And I want to get 50 bucks an hour, well, then I’m just doing some simple math, well, then I need to charge 150 bucks a client because I want to $50 an hour kind of income. So and that’s a livable wage. That’s, that’s a good, that’s a good gig there. The thing is, you got to be proficient like at that point, no one’s holding you accountable. So if you want to go in 40 minutes over, you’re losing money. So So I would try to guess that the hard part is if you don’t have any clients, right, which is back to like a previous episode we’ve done, maybe starting out with your pitch, if you’re brand new, and you want to feel a little bit more like I can make that I want to make what I think I’m worth but I haven’t shown anybody I’m worth that yet doing the free week or the free month kind of thing to show people that you’re worth it and then come back on and say, hey, the price is this. Yeah, you don’t even have to mention the price just mentioned if they’re interested at first and just say, hey, like I’m doing this remote coaching thing, if you’re interested in trying it out, I’ll give you a free week, you know, we’ll talk price afterward. But it’s going to be in the ballpark depending on what you’re looking for. If this and this you could that could be a great sales pitch for a lot of people because you can say, well, what’s the lower end offer? Well, the lower end doesn’t offer nutrition, it just gives you programming. And then there’s what’s the higher offer it was included nutrition, and me checking in on you more than this amount of time. So it’s more time it’s more knowledge. And maybe they want that may or some people are like well, I got nutrition, I just want to go through a lower price great. You didn’t lose anything and you still got a great offer out there and you had enough courage to build it and sell it based on the hard work you put in for free for a week. So you don’t have to do that forever. But I built my business off of that for the first like six months and that was a really good offer and then I realized I don’t need it. do this anymore. Like I’m getting enough people coming in that the free week things are gone. And here’s the price. But that’s how long it took me to build confidence in it. Everybody’s a little different. But you know, that’s where that’s like we’re mentoring and are not mentor, but just getting guided a little bit and thoughts, you know, thinking with someone can really benefit and Misbah. And I’ve had multiple those kinds of conversations over the last couple of years. So thoughts on that.

    Misbah Haque  25:23

    If knowing in the beginning, there’s the hourly rate you mentioned. And then I think it’s having in your mind, you’re a freelancer, you’re a coach or trainer like you need to operate as a freelancer. And freelancers have packages that are like, Hey, here’s one, two, and three, chances are, you’re going to pick the middle one, right, but there’s the lower package, which is just super accessible for anybody and everybody almost right, which is your hourly rate that you probably give the middle package is your monthly rate, probably that you’re like, hey, this is a retainer. It’s a commitment. But this is what you’re paying, this is what you get, make that something that you do want happy with, then make your third one something that you are going to surprise yourself with something you throw out there, you’re not expecting anybody to say yes to it, is a great way for you to train yourself to even just being like, Hey, this is what I charge for. And it should be more intensive, a little bit, right? So an example for a trainer could look, we’ll do it’s a one-time thing, but we’ll do kind of like a kitchen clean out, I’ll go shopping with you, we’ll figure out like, I’ll teach you a couple of meals, and I’ll film the videos for how to you know, make those meals for you. Like everything is very personal. And it’s like a six-hour day that you spend with them. But you charge like a ton for that you’re like it’s 1000 bucks to do it. But or 500 bucks to do it. But like you get a person who has literally this, you know, you know, a voice in your ear, right for a whole day or for a week, whatever it is. And so there are versions of that, right that you can customize. But those three, if you threw that out, there are something that gives somebody they can see themselves in at least one. Now. It’s not just about whether can I afford this or not, it’s Which one can I afford, where so that’s the benefit of presenting, I think three options if you’re in a place where you’re kind of strategizing your pricing and offers.

     

    How much should you charge for your coaching services? 

    Blake  27:22

    And I think one of the other things, it’s really like, a good way to maybe start if you’re more than the Gen pop and people who are in the Gen pop, they don’t know who OPEX is, or some of these other great organizations that you know, people in the remote coaching world probably know about, they’re just gonna think how much money is that. And I think one of the best ways to sell your upfront price is go look for the local CrossFit gym, or Orangetheory gyms in your town and see what their prices for classes. So let’s say the average CrossFit gym charges 150 bucks to be a member there, say I will do 150 bucks with you. But I’m going to customize your workout. So now what you’ve done is you just said I’m gonna give you the same price as the gyms around us. But this is going to be all customized and tailored towards you. And that would be maybe if you’re feeling like I don’t know where to start my price range locally. If you’re doing local remote coaching, like in your town, you want to just get a couple of people that are going to the local Globo gym and they’re doing that look go $10 I’m going to charge you what it would be like to go to Orangetheory I had a client here, who was thinking about she was doing PT with me. And she was like, you know, my friends going to Orangetheory I think I’m going to do that on the off days because I’m loved and working here. And she was getting great results really enjoyed it. I said, How much do RMS theory and she tell me the price is just That how much remote coaching is just to do it in here. Just do remote coaching here. I said, Well, I’ll program aerobic days where you are here and we’ll work on your aerobic energy system and keep that going. And she was like, Oh, I didn’t know that. And right away. Am I there I had a client who now is a PC client who also was a remote client and right and I just upped my income and I helped her out so she doesn’t have to go to another gym. Easy transaction easy, you know sign up. I just think that thinking through those things. When you talk about price margins, you want to think if the person you’re talking to is out of town and they’re thinking about that think about what their out-of-town cost per living is and what the gyms around they’re charging and do not go any lower in my opinion than what the local hit fit classes remote are across the classes or Orangetheory classes are charging because they’re all going to be in the 150 to $180 range. And honestly, that’s dirt cheap for remote coaching. So yeah, so and people will know the value of you once they get that going and see it and enjoy it and feel like someone’s in their corner. 

     

    Effectivity of free coaching 

    Misbah Haque  29:50

    Sorry to circle back real quick. I wanted to mention this line that you meant were talking about when it came to a kind of giving your service for free getting people to try it before any of this money exchange happens, and calling it a test drive, which I found to be effective. In multiple industries. I’ve tried this in fitness and other stuff, where Hey, like the non-awkward way for be like, let me know if you want to test drive that for a week. And then we can talk of if you like it, then we can talk about pricing, that’s making an offer where you’re like, oh, there’s no risk here. And I could try it. And then if I do like it, like, it gives you more ammo to make a better offer, because you have to remember this, like, no one wants just remote coaching, nobody’s searching for just remote coaching, like, the people who are searching for that language are like all athletes or stuff already, like they know what they’re doing. A lot of your people who aren’t going to know, as we said, OPEX is and you know, the big precision nutrition and big companies out there, they know their planet fitness or whatever it might be, you know, calling it something that, you know, you test drive the experience, you get more ammo during that test drive as to like, this is not just the one offer, like remote coaching, you get your workouts you get whatever, you need to personalize each of those bullet points to that person situation, just the way you didn’t click with that person where you were like, Oh, you want to go to Orangetheory? Well, what, what do you want out of orange theory is that the aerobics is the social stuff, okay, you figured out a very specific solution to that, which looks, social stuff, you can get the gym here, cool people here, you already like them, too. I’ll give you a similar effect, but I’ll personalize it for you. So you’re not just getting a stock, whatever that is like, that’s how you get people to say yes, if they see for their situation that’s more compelling, then I’ll write you workouts every week online. And you get five or you know what I mean? Like that’s like a very cut and dry way of explaining it when it’s asked. But in the beginning, it really is about like, when I would do consultations with people who, again, this was when I was like doing remote coaching with a company I and we were I had to charge I didn’t have this thing where I’m like, Look, I’m not confident in myself, I’m gonna charge a little lower this time, I had to charge and say the price that I was joking, I wasn’t fully confident on saying that, right? And when I saw people say yes, for the first couple times where I was like, oh my god, I can’t believe they said yes, like, you ever ventilate after you hung up on your like shorter breath, right? And when that would happen, I realized that what I did was I listened for enough time to not in a sleazy way, be like, I’m using this against you. But be genuinely like, Oh, you are in the army, you’re going to be going away. You need to be able to have equipment and workouts that you know, help you but aren’t disruptive with your current stuff. What are the tests? I feel like you might have some tests, right? That you need to pass? What are those tests you need to pass? Why is that important to you? Oh, the mile time I used to be fat when I was younger, and now I’m not. And I want to be able to, you know, run a really good mile and show my team I can do it whatever, right? Like the whole story behind someone’s thing. Do you know how to cook like, all all the answers to those questions, a lot of people will give it to you on in the consultation. And then it’s up to you whether you use that correctly. So when I would be like, so tell me if I’m hearing this correctly, and then you go through and list everything that you have heard from them, that was really important. So it was, look, you’re in the army, you’re gonna be traveling a lot, you need workouts that aren’t just in the gym, and you’re not gonna have access to the equipment. So bodyweight stuff is going to be huge. You need some assessments to be able to actually measure if you are getting better for the tests that pull up tests pass and the mile runtime that you want to pass. You need a you know, you don’t like to cook you, you don’t have access to a lot of food while you’re in, you know, the campground wherever you’re at, like, here’s the solution to that we’re going to come up with, you know, we’re going to gameplan some options on our next call, right when you get started. So all of a sudden, those are three specifics. That is the equivalent of if I want to explain that as you get an onboarding call where we talk about nutrition, you get workouts even when you travel that are adapted to your stuff, right? Like that’s a very, that’s my office, right that everybody does get. But when I deliver it, it has to be like oh, you’re a teacher so you’re probably super busy, and then you know when you’re exhausted at the end of the day like having workouts on those days where you know, you can actually get through them and then days where you have more energy you’re doing them before work like sounds like you’re a morning person, let’s get you you know this and that like stuff that actually goes Oh, you’re not just like waiting to tell me a price. as you’re listening to what I’m saying, People any day will take that. And if they feel convinced that you, you get it and you are capable of delivering that, then they’ll say yes, you know, and that’s how you make people almost feel stupid saying no, which is that you know, Alex or moseys book, like making an offer. So good that people feel stupid saying no, I love that line. It’s like, that’s all you have to do to get the sale and to begin kind of cultivating a coaching relationship. 

    Blake  35:31

    He’s the king of selling in the fitness world. He’s really good. I have a funny story about him. Yeah, to tell you in a minute. But one thing I was going to ask you was, you know, I was gonna say, in my experience with people who come in the house, if people walk through the door to meet with you in person for a console, I would say 90% of the time they’ve already sold themselves, you just need to not screw it up like that. They took all the effort to come there. Yes. What would you say? I want to hear what your experience is because you’ve done more phone call kind of consults. I have my number, and Zoom video consults over the phone calls, you know, what would you say if someone hops on a call with you know, is like kind of the closing percentage that you’ve experienced?

     

    Creating content to promote your business 

    Misbah Haque  36:16

    Oh, okay. When I was working for that company, where I was regularly doing, you know, the calls and like, I had that roster of 70. At a certain point, I was one of the highest I had when the highest close rates on the team, I think it was like 27 30%, or something at a certain point, I would say really good. I couldn’t hear you. 27 to 30% or so. What’s usually really good is 20 like 20% exceptional for salespeople in other real estate industries and things of that nature. That’s basically one in five calls. If you were to hop on, like you’re absolutely closing them. And for me, it was more so it was way higher than that at a certain point, because and you also have to consider like, these leads were warm already, right, to some degree. So again, I didn’t, I just had to not screw it up. And trust me, like, there were times a handful, maybe where I did, or I watched other people screw it up. And you’re like, oh, that’s like this person was ready to rock. And the difference was this in this, you know, maybe this handoff or whatever it is like I saw where I could see, right, right, if it did go correctly. So it at a certain point, it was almost like every call, I was in a groove where every call I hopped on, it was almost I knew they were going to close maybe it was like maybe four out of five or something like that something ridiculous where it’s not realistic most times for that to be a real question rate, but it made you think it made me go why is that possible? You should ask that. Why is it possible that that is happening? And the answer to that was content was doing all of the selling all the work, not just my content I was putting out but you know, companies, as in general, that’s where branding and stuff paid off, where you’re like, oh, my gosh, they you know, people are listening to my podcast before we hop on.

    Blake  38:13

    I think content reaffirms you in what you’re doing like it has to or you won’t, you won’t create content, right? Because Creating content is too much work to be promoting something you don’t really believe in. So like, like, like you’re selling yourself, which makes you better at selling your, your own product of yourself. So content is your is part of your sales strategy for getting better at sales. So it’s just, it’s just putting it out there.

    Misbah Haque  38:42

    It’s also looking at sales a little differently, like sales in general, back in the day was one-to-one, whatnot, right? Like now sales is it could be a phone call a voice memo, a podcast, a video, that is the sell like that video is where people are judging off of that. And let’s be realistic. When you decide to work with someone or buy a product, you go on Instagram, or you check out them on Google or their website or whatever. And you’re basically scanning the first couple stuff to make sure this is not spammy. It’s legit. People like it, like what are the things you’re checking off in your head? That’s how content actually does serve you. It’s like, you don’t need to have millions of followers or whatever. But does it look like you care? You know what you’re talking about, you can deliver on what you’re going to say like all those different content is what sells that not just to clients, but to employers, which we’ll talk about in a future episode. If you’re working, you’re wanting to work with really high-quality remote coaching companies or in general, like fitness companies, you know, it’s a very smart way to go and content can be used to convince them that you are the best fit.

    Blake  39:51

    I think one of the things I was going to mention it was just one of the differences is that because the company worked for you generated so many more leads so 26 Have It might sound really low to somebody, but when you’re dealing with a lot of leads, that’s really good. When you’re someone who was like me where I’m like, I’m only getting leads from people that are probably going to sign up with me because they know me through somebody and they’re going through a lot more effort to reach out to someone like me, as I would say, my closing rates, probably more like 75% over the phone 75 to 80.

     

    Finding ideal clients 

    Misbah Haque  40:23

    Oh, sorry. And actually, if you’re talking over the phone, like, because I think what that number considered, maybe was like a request to console was a lead if somebody actually submitted a form that began to be a lead. And then it’s the percentage of people who get on a call successfully with you, and you close. So I think that’s what it was. All the, like, people I got handed off or whatever, 27 to 30% of them, we got on a call and actually closed. If we got I think your I guess I didn’t answer your question. If they did get on the call. I mean, I did kinda like most of the time, they would, there were times where you’re like us is not a good fit right there, people would ghost you or whatever it would be. So it’s not every single time. But because there were so many steps beforehand to getting on the call. And they pass those litmus tests, like, it was definitely higher once on the call. But truly, if you’re remote coaching, the lead process begins when somebody requests a console DNS view, or whatever it is like that is the beginning of that journey. It’s like getting people on a call is almost impossible, when you’re starting out and have zero experience. Like that’s like, you need to cultivate the relationship in some other way first, which is usually like email DM, like, it’s some way where people begin to kind of come into your world. So yeah, that’s what I would say is like, the big companies and stuff like it show you what’s possible, which breaks your limiting beliefs because I had a lot of them as a coach, and a lot of them not just related to coaching, maybe just as a person, right, and your relationship with money and how much you think you could charge for something, whatever when you’re working with a big company who is used to dealing in crazy numbers and stuff like that, like it’s good for you, because your around that rate changes things like I would feel so confident selling my programming to gyms, because I work with gyms at a certain point where I would charge 375 per month, per month to do them, you know, programming for their gym. And they were high-pressure calls, like different than normal clients, because you’ve got the gym owner, you know, the other owner, the coach who’s only involved, you know, the ones who aren’t involved, like it’s a whole dynamic you’re dealing with, and you’re the new guy coming in and trying to kind of take control, and you’re asking for 375. And these people would actually pay that for six months, sometimes, right? So it really changed my mindset of what was possible, that never would have happened, if I was just doing it alone on myself forever, I’d be stuck in like, Ah, I can’t charge that much.

    Blake  43:06

    When you’re getting stretched, because it’s not your price, it’s someone else’s price, and you have to sell that you’re not allowed to change it. And that was helpful for me when I worked for another gym that like when I first started because our price is pretty much the same here now but you know, you’re selling three times a week Petey turned out to be like about $800 a month, and you’re like, that’s a big sale to sell somebody. And yeah, when you sell the first couple, it just gives you just this confidence to ask. And it’s always nice to go with, like, I think you said this earlier with the big offer first, and then back off, if it becomes a financial situation, like totally get it, that’s our premium Cadillac kind of offer. But you know, if this is more reasonable, and usually when you drop it down to a $500 offer from an $800 offer that looks a lot more reasonable to people and they’re willing to try that. So you know, getting that kind of practice for somebody else can really benefit you when you go maybe evolve and go off on your own or have some side business that you want to do or whatever however that works for you and your in your career.

     

    How to make a unique offer

    Misbah Haque  44:11

    I think this was so essential because like pricing, making offers is daunting when you’re starting anything new. And it’s something you have to do over the course of your career. So many times it’s not just once like you’re gonna have different offers that you do and maybe in different seasons, or it still might be the same underlying remote coaching, but it’s got you know, there are different flavors that you might offer. And you need to be able to make it compelling and like oh, people want this. There is always someone who won’t like we have a lot of weird people on this earth and a lot of weird unities right there are there they’re all over. You can see him on the like, Wow, I can’t believe 10 million people follow this thing, right but there’s a community around it. So there’s always people and a group of people who would actually love your thing who are so like they don’t know, you know what I mean, they’re not taking anything else into account, they’re not judging you through the filters that you are in that other coaches or fitness bar or whatever like they are so into you. It’s just that that’s not the audience that you’re usually trying to serve when you start out. Because like, that’s who you have access to, it’s just who’s around your family, your friends, your inner circle, your current gym. So know that because you truly can go crazy, and doubt yourself and quit. If that’s all you those are the only people you offer your stuff to. So break out of that try to find environments and different people that you can kind of just get used to asking. And like that’s all an offer is it’s not anything fancy. Let me send you a proposal like some people might have you do that in a certain point. But it basically look like a handshake deal. If I can do this for you. Can you give me this? And if this sounds like I need that right now, I want that, like, people will say yes. And your job is to develop emotional intelligence, I think it’s good to be able to figure out what someone wants, like, not everybody. Like, if you can’t figure that out, you probably didn’t deserve Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, if you can figure out exactly what this person needs, and you did present it to them like you were listening, they were truthful, you’re truthful like, and it makes for a very good start to a relationship. And, you know, the content, because I do want to hammer on this, I wish I did more on this back in the day, it’s something even with the changing landscape of today, I would still do is create pieces of content that you like, because at first, it feels pointless, just like, oh, nobody’s watching this, like who’s gonna, who’s gonna actually come as a result of this. But the reason you do that is that you’re thinking that the content is going to new people. And the other way to use content is to nurture existing people, right? So there’s a lead generation and lead nurturing. And I’ve heard a couple people say this at one point where I’m like, Okay, there’s something to it, where your social media is for the people that you pay to acquire, whether that’s with your time or your ads, or money energy, like, you go and reach out to somebody or go to a conference, or whatever it is, you meet people, your content is there to hook them into your world while you’re sleeping, to keep them kind of building a relationship with you while you’re not there. And that is a very real thing that will happen if you set it up, right the right way. And you have to start at some point. And it’s good to get practice, you’ll get practice speaking and presenting your ideas in a way that actually pays off. Like, can you send that video, right to your friend’s cousin who is getting a new job and wants to get in shape and is ready for a change in their life? And after? You know, when they don’t answer you after that first offer that you made? And you’re like, Ha, man, they don’t want it. And you’re like, Okay, fine, I’m gonna work up the courage, I’m gonna follow up with them. Can you send them a video that’s like, Hey, I made this, I thought you would enjoy it, instead of being like, Hey, did you check out? Did you read the message above, you know, like, you send the eye emoji like, Hey, check this out, you don’t have to do that you can send a piece of content that establishes the exact same thing, because people’s consumer, like consumers today, are so much smarter than we give them credit for. So the selling is happening, they’re being convinced or not convinced with every kind of interaction. So it’s not just about the call, or just about like what’s happening with your content. And so it feels pointless in the beginning. But if you can work up the courage to do that, you can kind of structure some of the offers and things we talked about today. You’re so much ahead of the game, then. People are in the beginning.

    Blake  49:00

    I think there’s a lot of good stuff today. I think we could probably do a follow-up on this because this is a big topic, but I think we gave a lot of good nuggets. And hopefully, this is something that’s helpful for everybody.

    Misbah Haque  49:08

    For sure, man, this was great, anybody who has questions, make sure to reach out we would love to hear from you. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure to SUBSCRIBE, LIKE COMMENT wherever you are, that always helps. But you know, this was a topic that hit kind of close to home for each of us. So we enjoyed the kind of riffing on it. And if you have any thoughts or comments, definitely reach out we’d love to hear from you. But thanks for hanging out.


    If you have any questions, feel free to message me at [email protected] or visit my instagram account @podmahal

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