Beyond Macros w/ Matthew Walrath

The hardest part of living a healthy lifestyle is more than lifting heavy weights. It also needs a foundation of nutrition to support your goals. My guest, Matthew Walrath came by to discuss the importance of using food to fuel the body with better energy to support a healthy lifestyle. He is the owner of Beyond Macros, a leading nutrition coaching platform to help people focus on quality food. We talk about evaluating food templates, food culture in different parts of the world, and so much more.

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    Show Notes:

    ·        (4:47) – Inspiring journey

    ·        (6:40) – Food culture

    ·        (11:10) – Foundation of nutrition

    ·        (20:23) – Evaluating food template

    ·        (24:14) – Fueling the body

    ·        (29:28) – Creating change within the nutrition

    ·        (37:20) – Childhood trauma

    ·        (43:56) – Beyond Macros

    ·        (54:35) – Rapid fire

    ·        (1:01:12) – Taking a leap

    ·        (1:07:09) – Growth mindset

    Podcast Transcript:

    Matthew  (00:00):

    This is Matt Walrath and you are listening to the airborne mind show.

    Misbah Haque  (00:35):

    Hey guys, Misbah Haque here. Thank you so much for joining me today. And welcome back to the show. Before we get started, I would love to point you to two places. And number one is if you’ve listened to the show in the past and you’ve enjoyed it, you’ve been entertained by it or you’ve got something out of it. Please head over to iTunes and leave a review with your thoughts. It is the best compliment that you can give, and you have no idea how much it would help. Number two, if you are a coach, and you are interested in communication, connection, and conversations, you might enjoy this course that Dr. Megan Kayden, who is a clinical psychologist and I have put together called The Art and Science of connection. If you realize the value in communicating, asking better questions, listening and helping your clients feel seen, heard and understood, then this might be a good fit for you. If you want to check out the details around that head over to the 

    Today’s episode is brought to you by revive RX. Revive RX is my recovery of choice. And this is because it is 100% clean, there’s no BS and it tastes absolutely phenomenal. My favorite is the strawberry recovery, which I also call the Pimp Juice. I take four scoops after my workouts and occasionally I’ll do the rebuild which is pure protein versus the Recover which is a two to one carbs to protein ratio. And if you want some educational material around supplementation and just nutrition overall, I recorded some short videos with Marcus Filly that you can get exclusively at So check that out. And if you’re in the market for supplements, head over to revive RX calm and use the code Ms. 10 at checkout.

    Today, my guest is Matt Walrath, who is the founder of Beyond macros. It is a nutrition coaching company that really takes individualization and sustainable nutrition practices into account. So that alone really intrigued me. And I wanted to learn more about some of his thought processes and frameworks around nutrition overall. But he really fascinates me as just a human, he picked up and moved to Australia, where he spent a lot of time just living the nomad lifestyle. 

    To learn more about the food culture over there, he has a certain amount of clientele that was coming from Australia. And he just picked up left and really delved into the culture, to really get a firsthand look at how he can learn from some of the practices that are going on here and how he can relay that to people like me, and his own clients. Now he is actually I think he was in Hawaii when we had this conversation. And he’s outside wearing a cool little hat. And so yeah, the wind and whatnot that you might hear from time to time, please excuse that. We did the best that we could with sound for this episode. But I for sure think that you’re going to get a ton out of this one. I also recommend that you check out his podcast, which I was on, and if you haven’t listened to, I have that linked up in the show notes. But the format that he has is very interesting to me. Because think of it as one of the like NPR shows you might listen to which are really narrative-based and edited down to, a style that really like a 90-minute conversation is distilled down to 20 minutes of storytelling. And if you know me, how much that fascinates me. So we dig into that a little bit as well. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And more importantly, I hope you do something with it. Matt, welcome to the show, brother.

    Matthew  (04:44):

    Thanks for having me. Misbah excited to talk again.

    Inspiring journey

    Misbah Haque  (04:47):

    Absolutely. You right now are in Maui, and you’ve had quite the journey. You were in Australia for a little bit and I know your travels are nowhere near over. You have a lot going on right now, tell me a little bit about what you’ve been up to these past couple of months, I found kind of your reason for going on this journey. Pretty inspiring, especially going to Australia and learning more about food. So could you tell us a little bit about that process for you?

    Matthew  (05:16):

    Absolutely. I guess it really started at the beginning of the year, a long-term relationship that I was in had ended and gave me an opportunity just to dive deeper into my own personal development and remember and get back to myself after being in a relationship for so long. And I realized a lot about myself, and things were going really well. And things were going great in LA, all my relationships were probably the best they’d been and business was going the best it was going. And I just had this urge to get out and explore and be on the road. Even though things were so good. I figured, rather than wait for things to be bad, I was gonna leave at a high point. And I packed up, left the place that I had been living in for two years, and broke across the country, initially beating us for taking off for Indonesia. And then off to Australia. 

    As you mentioned, I went to Australia, not just to experience the country that I had had on the top of my travel list for so long, but also because I wanted to understand the food culture, I had been getting a lot more Australian clients, and I realized that I couldn’t take an American solution and apply it to Australia and (inaudible) both of our cultures are born from England. There’s definitely gonna be these subtle differences. And I definitely realized them as I was walking through grocery stores and going to restaurants and just living with Australians.

     Food culture

    Misbah Haque  (06:40):

    Yeah, I find that so interesting. Because that’s something we certainly don’t all think about, at first, where it’s like, oh, yeah, the food culture between America and Australia is probably vastly different. What are some of the things that you found now actually experiencing it, were there any things in particular that really surprised you or stood out to you?

    Matthew  (07:03):

    One of the interesting things was just that the grocery stores there were very similar to the US. But being somebody from the US going there having to get used to the price per kilogram instead of price per pound was quite an adjustment for me because the kilogram for people who don’t do Olympic weightlifting is 2.2 pounds. So if you’re looking at the price for carrots or the price for apples, you’re used to seeing maybe $1 per pound, or $3 per pound, and then all of a sudden, you’re seeing like $10 per kilogram. And that’s because the Australian dollar is a little bit weak compared to the US dollar, as well as it’s 2.2 times the mass. So that was an interesting adjustment for me at first. But yeah, one of the things that I noticed is they’re very similar. There’s a lot of the same products. But when you go to the grocery store there, and then you go to a health food aisle, for example. There are not as many options like we have a lot of different options for protein bars. For me, I can’t do whey protein, it’s a major sensitivity. For me, soy protein doesn’t really agree with me. 

    And as far as protein bars go, for example, whey and soy are primarily the protein sources in those bars, you can’t get something like an RX bar, that egg white protein is the protein source. So you can’t get something like a rising bar where pea protein is the source of their vegetarian ones. And you can get built on which is a little bit wetter version of jerky, which I really enjoyed. But there was less selection on jerky. And there was also nothing like an epic bar, for example. And we have multiple brands, these (inaudible) like Epic, Tonka, and a few other brands that I’ve seen popping up in Whole Foods and in stores like that throughout the US.

    Another interesting thing too is that there’s less. For example, I know in Los Angeles, we’ve got tons of places where you can get great prepared meals. So you can walk up to a counter at Whole Foods and you can get a well-prepared meal, a nice hot meal, there’s good salad bars, we have a place in Los Angeles called Rainbow acres, where you can actually get a bunch of salads and sides and all these really good quality prepared foods at health food stores. And that is very few and far between in Australia. So a lot fewer opportunities for somebody to get a ready-made meal if they’re on the go. And there are definitely less hot bars and salad bars. And it’s more like the Woolworths or the Kohl’s or all the bigger grocery chains really dominate there.

    Misbah Haque  (09:34):

    That’s really interesting. So do you think like after actually spending some time there picking up on some of these subtleties? Has it helped you with working with your clients who are from Australia and has it brought anything new that you may have brought back to even the clients that you might be working with within the US?

    Matthew  (09:58):

    I think one of the most potent things I got out of it. As for all my Australian clients now I can actually tell them, or I’ll see in their food journal that a lot of the food they’re putting in there is from Kohl’s, for example. So I know that they’re grocery shopping at Kohl’s and because I’ve been through the aisles at Kohl’s and I was looking for myself to find foods that were both convenient and high quality, I can actually recommend specific products to them, specific brands and specific foods. And I think that’s really helpful. Because if I were to tell somebody to get a brand of food or a type of food that was available in the US, and they’re in Australia, they’re just going to be looking through the aisles and they might not be able to find it. 

    So that was something that’s been really helpful for me, especially for my very busy clients, because you need to have some more convenient options and still have some quality. And I was able to find and identify some of those foods that exist within the grocery markets in Australia. As far as bringing things back to the US. I don’t know, I think it’s really that I take for granted the amazing access to food that we have. I really developed that appreciation for it being in some third-world countries. But even being in a first-world country like Australia and seeing how many options we have compared to them, I really will never take that for granted.

     Foundation of nutrition

    Misbah Haque  (11:10):

    Tell me a little more about your nutrition coaching business. So you work with clients all over the world, when did this journey kind of begin for you? And maybe even take it as far back as your relationship with food and what kind of sparked your curiosity to be able to pursue this line of work?

    Matthew  (11:33):

    So it really started because I was a short and skinny kid who rode the bench in sports because I just wasn’t big enough to wasn’t tall enough to play basketball, and wasn’t big enough to be a linebacker in football. And my mom really wanted to fatten me up if you will so that I wouldn’t get hurt in contact sports. And I was just eating a giant salad mixing bowls of tortellini. And every night I’d be having pints of Ben and Jerry’s that have those big salad bowls of cereal in the morning with like six eggs, I was just throwing as much food down as possible. I’d bring Snickers bars and jars of peanut butter to school with me and eat a bar with peanut butter in between classes. And I just ate like crap growing up. And I was always sick. And I definitely grew as any child does. But I never achieved being big because it just wasn’t in the cards for me, even if I lifted and ate all that food. 

    And I really developed some body image issues around it and really developed some complexes. And for me, it was around the time that I had a college that I realized that I really enjoyed pushing my performance. And in my pursuit of performance, I was a lot happier with the process. And I was also a better athlete. I put on a bunch of weight going into my freshman year of college to play defense in the sport of lacrosse, which requires, as I thought, a little bit of size, and it slowed me down. And one of my assistant coaches who recruited me to the team was just, I recruited you for your speed. And yeah, you’re big. Now, you’re going through a process of talking to the strength and conditioning coach. At the school, I really got on a good lifting program and training program. They’re very similar to CrossFit. And he also really changed up the way I was eating, I was just eating all of the worst things in the cafeteria, I was eating double cheesesteaks and waffles with ice cream and all that just trying to put that size on, he was just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you need to stick to the salad bar, get the meat, get the grains and get the potatoes and get the stuff to fuel your training. 

    And I really started to see that pushing performance. Now all of a sudden, I was getting some time on the field, I was improving in my sport. And I slowly stopped getting sick all the time. And being healthier and being able to put that energy back into my training really paid dividends. And after that year, I ended up being a three-time all-American after that. And I really attribute a lot of it to my changes in nutrition and my changes in my mindset. And my changes to the way that I approach training and making those changes to my nutrition and not being sick anymore really piqued my interest. And then during my CrossFit level one back in 2010, there was like that 15 minutes section on nutrition and they talked about the Zone diet.

    And that’s the first time I was exposed to anything quantity-related. I had already been exposed to some quality improvements. But now I was looking at some quantity-based stuff and I found it fascinating because for me being able to just hit those numbers. It was almost a game. So I was loving playing the game of the zone diet. After that, I continued to see some improvements and that really sparked my interest in nutrition. From there, I ended up wanting to dive further into the precision nutrition certification and from there that’s when I really started nutrition coaching and it’s blown up from there. sounded like you wanted to say something. And I’ve been talking for a while. So let’s jump in. 

    Misbah Haque  (15:04):

    I was just thinking it must have been so nice that you had this exposure to food quality before that exposure to quantity. Did that kind of set a foundation for you that, you’ve looked back on? And you’re like, I’m kind of glad it happened that way.

    Matthew  (15:22):

    Absolutely. Because I stopped getting sick all the time. When I switched to better food quality, I went a little bit too obsessed with salads. And I was not fueling myself enough with carbohydrates. And then I was definitely lacking a little bit of energy. And then as soon as I was told to add carbohydrates back in, and I saw my energy increase, that was really potent for me. And that’s it. That’s an issue that I think a lot of athletes have, it’s not eating enough carbs when they switch to a focus on food quality. But I am so grateful, because not being sick all the time and am able to just pour that energy back into performance. It just paid dividends compounded.

    Misbah Haque  (15:59):

    For sure. And then you mentioned that you had the opportunity to take the precision nutrition certification, that was kind of the spark for everything that’s maybe happening now. What did you do because I’m really fascinated by a lot of them, just the framework and the philosophy that they, believe in and how they approach nutrition. It really fascinates me, what was your takeaway from going through that process with them? And maybe what even drew you to them in the first place?

    Matthew  (16:32):

    I was asking around about what were good nutrition certifications to do as a beginner when I was in college, because I really, at that time only had that 15 minute. CrossFit, CrossFit level one exposure to the Zone Diet at that point. And I started reading some books, but a lot of them were just written by charlatans who are pushing like this diet or that diet. And I really wanted to learn more about what was physiology, what is the biology of nutrition? And I was asking around trying to get a feel for okay, what is something that a beginner can approach and is going to teach me a little bit more of an unbiased approach rather than how to teach somebody how to be on a diet. And I heard precision nutrition come up multiple times, I had read a few books where Dr. John Berardi, the owner of Precision nutrition was a contributor. 

    I’d seen some of his research. And I was like, what, I, I definitely appreciate this guy and what he’s put out into the world, I’m interested in taking precision nutrition level one. And really what I took from the certification was that you need to take a habit based approach to helping people. I definitely, in my coaching, don’t use the exact tactics outlined in the precision nutrition workbook and the precision nutrition textbook. But it is really that core idea that if you help people change their habits, you can make a really profound change and a change that’s going to last. And that’s something that stuck with me. And something I’ve really been obsessed with is figuring out how to create lasting habit change in people.

    Misbah Haque  (18:07):

    Is that really, I guess what you found when it comes to coaching people, one on one, versus just kind of giving them a diet plan or a list of foods to kind of eat? Is that really where the difference of coaching actually comes in is now you’re starting to get creative and think about it? Okay, how can we start to change this person’s, their behavior, essentially?

    Matthew  (18:32):

    I really do think that that’s the key. Because what the way that I see it if you give someone a meal plan, or you give them a diet plan, and I know this from experience when I first started nutrition coaching, I was all about giving people meal plans, what I started seeing was just that people would take the meal plan, and they would execute it 100% for two, three days. And then they would go out to lunch with their friends and they wouldn’t know how to adjust. The problem with the meal plans was that they did represent a gradual change from what was normal for them, it represented a full 180-degree shift from what was normal for them. So by the time that they were done with, a one-month-to-month meal plan, they had made some progress, but they didn’t really know how to adjust if they weren’t on the meal plan. And really, they learned a few key takeaways, but they just reverted to their old habits. 

    And I just realized that that wasn’t a sustainable model for the client because then they were reliant upon me to consistently be writing a meal plan for them. And that’s really it takes a lot of my time to do that. So I can’t help a lot of people and I’m really not creating lasting change. I’m just handing people fish. I’m not teaching people how to fish. And when I went the habit based direction, I started seeing that I could get results with clients but if I was too focused on the habits and not enough on actually the quantities of things and being a little bit stricter with accuracy, then I would didn’t get the short term results as well. So I had to really take a balanced approach of focusing on not only getting people to be accurate with their diet in their macros, but also focusing on the habits that supported that, and making sure that they focused on the habits so that in the long term, they could stick to those, and they can always whenever they fell off the rails fall back on that foundation they’ve created for themselves.

    Evaluating food template

    Misbah Haque  (20:23):

    I love that. I’m sure that’s kind of a dance that you’ve had to do and an imbalance that you found over experimentation for quite some time. But what are some of the things that are some of the approaches that you may have used when a client first comes to you? And you’re trying to just kind of gauge their starting point? What, what’s that interaction look like?

    Matthew  (20:45):

    So with all of our clients, we have an initial orientation meeting with them, where we’re really taking the time to ask them what their typical days look like. So usually, I’ll ask a client, okay, what, what is your most typical daily template? And walk me through? When do you wake up? What are you eating? What are you eating? When are you training? What do you consume around your training? What makes you hungry throughout the day, once your energy drops? Where do the struggles or the vices tend to pop in? And once I understand that for the most typical day, then I’ll move on and be like, Okay, where are the variations where the deviations generally people will have a typical training day templates like I wake up, I go train, I eat, I go to work, whatever it happens to be, and then the weekend will be different.

    That’s usually when people are a little bit more relaxed. They don’t necessarily follow anything strictly, there’s less, there’s less, that’s normal, there’s less of like a training and work routine to anchor habits into. So they tend to be more freeform is something that I noticed, and then people tend to have rest day habits as well. So usually, I’m seeing things like training days, rest days, weekend habits, and really taking the time to understand what those days look like for people.

    Misbah Haque  (21:54):

    That’s awesome. So I mean, this kind of leads me to ask about the name of your company beyond macros. And you’ve talked about food quality and how it’s impacted. You’ve talked about food quantity, how, how do you? Where do you kind of stand now with that balance? And how do you kind of view that when you’re having that conversation with clients? Because it does seem like you’ve had to play with both of those things to get some sort of buy-in from the client? And like you said, blending that habit-based approach type of coaching with some quantity, type of metrics, and stuff like that. So what’s that? What’s that now look like?

    Matthew  (22:36):

    That’s a great question. I really feel like the important thing there with the habit changes is that you have some numbers to hit. So for example, if I’m trying to help you with a habit change, I’m not going to be just like okay, Misbah, you need to be eating more meat, I’m going to be able to look at your food journal and see like Misbah, you need to be like, for example, you’re only eating 100 grams of chicken every day at lunch, you need to double that. And it’s, it’s totally reasonable to do. I’ve really found that in order to get buy-in with clients, which is the most important thing, compliance is the number one thing as a coach is, you’ve got to get the buy-in, whatever that happens to be, it might not be 100% of what you want them to do. But if you can get them to buy 70%. That’s good. 

    So for me, I’ve realized that I start with a quantity first approach because people will see changes in their body from improving the quantity, no matter what, when people start to see the changes and they kind of get that dopamine release from like, the scale is going down or moving up, or my body’s looking better, then they’re going to be more apt to listen to the other things that you have to offer to them that can really help them in the long run. So my goal really is to get people to see some changes initially, which is why I take the quantity first approach. And then that allows me to get the buy-in and start to address things like quality, for example, because if I get somebody to completely shift their quality of foods, but they’re overeating, they might still see the scale going up. And they might think, Matt’s a quack, what’s he, why is he having me do this? It’s so restrictive. And I’m still not making progress or worse, moving in the other direction.

    Fueling the body

    Misbah Haque  (24:14):

    That’s huge. I mean, there’s nothing more motivating than when you actually start to see some results. I mean, for you, it was like, you weren’t getting sick anymore, you had more energy, you’re performing well. So similarly, if somebody’s seeing that weight go down or up based on what they want. It’s like, it gives you all the more reason to kind of listen and stick to what you’re giving them.

    Matthew  (24:36):

    Yeah, and I have also thought that a lot of times people who come to us and they haven’t been eating enough food, being able to have energy for training and work and the responsibilities and family really as a motivating factor as well, as soon as they start to feel subjectively better by actually eating the right amount of energy. That tends to create some really good buy in as well.

    Misbah Haque  (24:59):

    What are you I think it is about that with not eating enough food, even when the goals might be weight loss, for example,why is it that the perception might be on the clients and that you while they’re eating so much, and they need to eat less, but in reality, they actually need to eat more to keep up with like you said performance or just day to day activities.

    Matthew  (25:24):

    Some people will come to me thinking that they’re eating too little. And that’s why they’re gaining weight. But the thing is, that’s just usually not the case. Usually, once I start getting somebody keeping a food journal, they realize that, especially in the CrossFit community, we’ve learned that healthy fats don’t make you fat, blah, blah, blah. But the problem is, is a system that energy and energy out do apply for most people. Almost everybody, except for people with some thyroid issues, it’s hard to tell. And what I found is a lot of people in the CrossFit community who have done things like now, the whole 30s are really strict paleo and things like that. They’re eating just like handfuls of trail mix. And they’re just completely dousing everything, they cook it and all of our coconut oil, they’re doing bulletproof coffees in the morning. And although they feel like they’re not eating a large bulk of food, and maybe they’re not eating enough, that’s a really energy-dense macronutrient, that’s really easy to overeat and create a calorie surplus with fats, and feel like you’re not eating enough food. 

    So generally, when we start shifting the macro balance, back into alignment, most people who do CrossFit need to eat adequate carbs, because the energy system your body uses during CrossFit relies heavily on carbs, once we have those back in people’s bodies or fuel, they start to feel a little bit more energy, we can create that deficit in a way that does feel like their energy is super low. Because we can have someone come to us that’s on a surplus, but the surpluses mostly from fat, and they don’t have enough carbohydrate in the system to fuel the training that they’re doing plus their brain for activities throughout the day. And just when we switch that balance, even if we create a deficit, they still sometimes feel like they have more energy than they did on that surplus that was out of balance.

    Misbah Haque  (27:10):

    So coming back to nutrition change, right? When you think of long-term, longer-lasting nutrition change, what comes to mind for your paint, paint a picture as to what that looks like for you. And what do you, envision for many of your clients?

    Matthew  (27:30):

    So I’ve been thinking about this actually, I started reading I think it was, was it leaders eat last by Simon Sinek. And what he really defined the vision statement is not just some generic statement that you have about like, oh, I want to help 100 million people do this, a vision statement is really, you taking a second to imagine what the world looks like, looks like if your organization achieves its mission. So I’ve realized that the vision is the world as it is now, there was a study done that showed that 96 or 94 96% of people who lose 20 pounds or more, gain it back within a year. So that shows that I think between four to 6% of people actually go through a diet and lose weight and make a transformation and actually maintain it over the long term. So I really just imagine a world where that statistic doesn’t exist, even if we could get it to 8020. Even if we could improve it, if there were more people on this earth who realize that they can live a long and happy and healthy life. That would be great. My vision is that people take nourishing their bodies seriously. sly, I want to feel good. And all of the habits are gonna fall into place around that.

    And it’s a part of their life that they think about on a daily basis. It doesn’t have to be something like I think that some people really take it to the extreme. They get so into biohacking for biohacking sake rather than improving their quality of life. And I think that you should really put enough focus into nourishing yourself that your quality of life improves. And I really think if people are sleeping better, eating better, exercising the right amount, because I see a lot of over-exercise, and finding ways to be resilient with stress, and also engage in activities that reduce stress, but the world’s just going to be a better place. And that statistic will naturally start to start to fit. Because people will just have this long-term perspective, which will really help them to actually think like, I want to take myself seriou

    Creating change within the nutrition

    Misbah Haque  (29:28):

    For sure. And it’s one thing when you are attracting the people who are already in that camp, where it’s like what, I’m ready. I’m here for the long haul. I know, it’s gonna take a long time for me to create these changes. But I’m ready. And then you have the other camp where it’s like, what, I want to do this in the next 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, whatever that timeframe might be, that framework is a little bit different. So what’s been your approach, if you’ve had to deal with that at all? How do you go about kind of starting maybe that education process or that consultation process with somebody who’s, looking for? A not an overnight success, but they’re that framework for long-term longer-lasting nutrition change isn’t really there.

    Matthew  (30:18):

    So are you asking like, if somebody is coming to me, and they’re not already, like in line with my vision, they’re kind of like, Oh, I just want to look good for my wedding in three months? And they haven’t really looked beyond that. How do I start that education process? Exactly? So sometimes you have to be a little bit covert with it. So definitely, we just launched a group program. And on the sales page, there, I really made sure that I kind of set up allergies within the copywriting so that anybody who just wanted a short term change that would just look over us because, I didn’t want people in our group program, that we’re just looking for that short term change, and we’re going to be falling off because everything that I’m doing to educate the people in that program has a long term focus, I’m helping them get a short term change, but I want them to be focused on the long term, and want them to really take this seriously, and kind of be a part of that tribe. So I really set up some allergies. 

    And the copywriting or somebody who’s just looking for short-term changes is going to come like if somebody like I’d, for example, I would never work with somebody who wants to do a figure competition or a bodybuilding competition, just because, it’s this unhealthy cycle. And it’s not in line with my vision. So there are some people there, there’s somebody else out there who can serve them. And hopefully, they can come to that realization through the process on their own. But if someone’s coming to us, and they really want to work with us, and then they join, and they’re doing a one on one program, it’s about getting that buy-in initially, as soon as they start seeing results, you really start getting them excited about maintaining those results, and you start implementing some other things where they can’t help but have those habits integrated and, and really making sure that you’re educating them in a way that they can always make good decisions if they’re motivated to do so because you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make a drink.

    If somebody doesn’t care about their body, or they don’t care about that long-term change, they really have to come to that on their own, like you refused to because Christmas just happened. And we had a lot of people who wanted to get coaching for their significant other brother or sister or whatever, as a gift. And we had done that in the past. But people who don’t come to the conclusion that they want nutrition coaching on their own, do not do well on the program, they really don’t have the buy-in, and they don’t care. So it’s a waste of time for somebody to work with one of my coaches if they don’t care,

    Misbah Haque  (32:38):

    I love that you use that phrase creating allergies within just the sales page, because I have encountered that recently as well, where it’s like, being pretty explicit as to who you want and who you don’t want saves so much time in the long run on both ends, right? Because it’s like, you’re not getting on calls with people who are totally out of line with what your vision was. And you’re attracting people who are, like you said, kind of already bought into that long term game plan, it just makes the entire process a lot smoother.

    Matthew  (33:11):

    Yeah, exactly. And I wish that I could get messages out that would help bring people who aren’t there up a level to awareness about the long term changes. And that’s what I try to do through podcasting, and things like that, and the articles that I put out, but when it comes down to it, I only really want to work with people that are there, and they’re ready to make that change. And the more that I can spread messages to give me some better business.

    Misbah Haque  (33:39):

    Yeah, I want to get your thoughts now on personal freedom, when you think of that phrase, what, what comes up for you there?

    Matthew  (33:51):

    So I was really reflecting on this recently because I’ve obviously been on the road for a little over six months now. And I’ve been traveling solo. So I’ve really been able to ask myself consistently, is this what I want to be doing? And that process of always asking myself, is this what I want to be doing? And coming up with an answer from my deeper self, myself that actually is in alignment with my own values and my own wants and needs, if something isn’t what I don’t want to be doing, then I’m not going to do it anymore. And I’m going to figure out what it is I want to do and I’m going to go do it. And I think that freedom came from just stripping away a lot of the conditioning that I’ve had, whether it comes from, my parents or relationships I’ve had or just culture and society, and really being able to get back to myself.

    That has been a big, big step for me and my personal freedom. And another huge thing for me that I’ve realized is that having a growth mindset is probably the most important thing for your personal freedom. Because inevitably things that might be perceived as negative or going to happen in your life. But if you realize that, like you’re meant to have those experiences, so you can learn that lesson and integrate and grow from it, it’s just so liberating, you really no longer get into this pattern feeling like the world’s out to get you and that every bad thing that happens to you is happening to you rather than for you. And that has led to just so much personal freedom for me.

    Misbah Haque  (35:24):

    It seems like everything you’re kind of doing right now, traveling to Australia to learn more about the food culture, working with clients that are all over the world. This is something that,, maybe didn’t just happen by accident, something you intentionally designed for yourself, based on your thoughts around personal freedom and what it meant for you. Is that right?

    Matthew  (35:50):

    Absolutely. The way that my business is structured allows me to have the freedom to travel. And the thing is, a lot of people I was consistently hearing in Australia, like all you’re living the dream, right? And I was just like, man, you just see what’s on the outside, you just see that my accent is different from yours. And then I’m traveling and still earning US dollars when I’m in other countries. And, that’s not the dream. And that’s not freedom. Because if I was carrying my baggage with me, if I was, three years ago, if I was carrying all of my demons from three years ago, and my mindset from three years ago, on this trip, I really wouldn’t be free, I really wouldn’t be as happy as I am right now. 

    And for me, being able to go through that personal growth process and face my demons and really do a much better job of embodying the growth mindset in every aspect of my life, not just athletics, academics, and things in business, it’s really allowed me to have that high degree of personal freedom. And within my business, because I’ve been able to unlock what my values are, and what my vision is, it’s allowed me to really direct my business in that way. So as I mentioned, my vision to you, it’s like, I really get behind that. And I’ve set up my business in a way that I can help achieve that. So I just feel so good. Every day, being able to work in that direction and work with people who are excited about what we’re doing.

    Childhood trauma

    Misbah Haque  (37:20):

    What if you feel comfortable sharing what was an obstacle or two, or a barrier, maybe that came up in the way for you on this path to personal freedom that many people might not think about? Like you said, From the outside, it’s like, oh, you’re living the dream. But the struggles that you’ve had, and the challenges that you’ve had to overcome? Are there any, in particular, that stand out to you that were, huge lightbulb moments for you? And that you’re comfortable sharing?

    Matthew  (37:51):

    I’m an open book. So feel free to ask anything. But one of the big ones for me, I just have this, this perception that a lot of the traumas that happened during your childhood, create these sub-personalities that are there to protect you. So they were created to protect you in childhood, from a repeat of the trauma that happened. And the problem is, once you hit adult life, they no longer serve you in that way, but they’re still there. So for example, sometimes I’ll silence the deep, deep part of myself that just wants to go climb a tree, because I think like, oh, well, people around think, oh there’s the, there’s the mom voice in the back of your head, like, Oh, if you fall, you’re gonna hurt yourself, here’s like, the teacher voice in your head, like Matt get down from that tree right now. And you just have all of these, all of these voices that almost made the act of climbing a tree that you wanted to do so badly, to be almost a traumatic experience or like a bad thing. So being able to, to be able to listen to the voice that’s your own, rather than listen to the voices from conditioning or, be affected by those sub-personalities, like an inner critic, for example. Being able to work through that’s really important. 

    And for me, I’ve spent a lot of time out in nature, it’s given me the opportunity to disconnect but also to really chew on some bigger picture things for my business and myself, just being out there in nature. Because sometimes I’ll be out there and I’ll just see this epic tree or I’ll see two palm trees super close to each other. I’ll just be like, oh, man, I wonder if I could like shimmy my way up those. And normally, I’d be like, Oh, I’ve got a backpack on. I might hurt myself, blah, blah, blah, all these reasons why not to do it. But I’ve really just been listening and like hearing that voice deep inside myself. That’s like, yeah, go do that. Like that’s, that’s gonna be so fun. You’re gonna really enjoy that. I’ll put my backpack down and leave my fear aside and I’ll just go do it and then I’ll have a blast. And being able to just get back to that has been a really big thing for me. And it has that bigger lesson of just being able to separate, What is a protection mechanism that’s gone in, maybe from childhood trauma that’s holding you back from really expressing yourself in a way that you want to express yourself. Another one too was that I’ve played in bands, and I’ve played music live in front of people. And I love performing. But for some reason, I’ve never felt comfortable playing the drum. I’ve never felt comfortable singing, I’ve never felt comfortable with poetry. 

    And I’ve really taken the time to address it. Okay, why do I have those fears of performing with those things, it just came down to I think I grew up in a small town and being a small community, you really are protecting yourself from embarrassment or ridicule. I remember a situation, for example, that really came up big for me where I feel terrible about participating in this. But one of my friends got the idea to ditch another one of my friends in the woods because they had a little tiff and every once again, and I was like, I don’t want to do that. But I don’t want to get ditched,, so I went with them. And I ditched my friend, I remember how mad he was, and, how upset he got. And I was like, man, I felt that and I felt terrible. And I was like, I don’t want to feel like that. So I just got in line. And, I did things that would let me blend in. So I didn’t stand out and be the person that got ditched. Yeah. And yeah. And so for me, realizing that lesson, I was like, oh, the reason that I don’t want to do these things that I might not be good at, like a drum. It’s because the drums are loud. And if I’m not good at it, then maybe someone will laugh and think like, oh, he’s not good at that. 

    Why is he playing that? What a weirdo? And then I realized, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. And I started actually just playing the drum in some circles with some friends and holding some beats. And it was just such a freeing and liberating experience. And I decided, all right, what, I’m gonna, I just felt this poem coming up. So I wrote the poem. And next time, I had the opportunity to share it with some of my Close Brothers and men’s sharing circle, I shared that bone. I wrote a song and I sang that song, a little. All those things facing the stairs, I was like, wow, it was things that I was so afraid of, so fulfilling, it was so liberating to really do those things. And those were some big teachers, for me as well.

    Misbah Haque  (42:19):

    I think liberating, I think that’s the word every time that you do that. And when you encounter a situation like that, you seem to feel even more and more liberated, and it kind of drives you to do the next thing. But what was maybe the process that where do you find yourself as somebody who was always very introspective and aware, and you were able to kind of listen and pick up on these things? Or was that something that you had to actively kind of develop somehow?

    Matthew  (42:50):

    I think that it was definitely an intuitive thing for me. But the problem is, I actively developed the ability to stop listening and to shut down my emotions. And it led to a lot of depression. For me when I was in high school, really struggled. Because I was just wearing a mask all the time. And I was getting accepted for my mask, but I wouldn’t feel accepted for my authentic self. And so I had really just, I did myself a great disservice in high school by actively silencing my authentic voice. And it’s really just been an easy process for me now, because all I, especially with traveling, I’m rapidly switching where I’m staying in rapidly switching contexts. And it’s easy for me to like Bruce Lee, take the lessons that I’ve learned that I want to integrate and integrate them, leave all of the bad stuff behind and just move on to the next lesson. So for me, it’s really been a remembering process of what’s intuitive. And it’s really been a stripping away of what I put in place that doesn’t serve me.

    Beyond Macros

    Misbah Haque  (43:56):

    I love that. This brings me to ask you about your podcast. Yeah, I had the honor of being on your show. And you asked some very good questions that got me thinking. Tell me a little bit about the format of your show. And what may have inspired that for you? 

    Matthew  (44:17):

    It was so great to have you on the show. Because now I’m thinking like, oh, we talked about so much interpersonal communication and connection. And now I’m so curious to talk to you about the intrapersonal. So the UW conversation, so given you a little teaser for what we’re talking about next time you come on the show, but yeah, so so the way that my show is structured is to think about an amateur version of an NPR podcast or a gimlet media podcast, where I’m really trying to take an expert like yourself and a topic and just tell the story of that topic. So I’ll talk with my guests for 60 to 90 minutes in an interview and then I’m cutting it down to about 15 to 20 minutes. And it’s really a narrative that focuses on one topic. And for us, we were talking about the art and science of connection. And that’s what the episode really revolves around.

    I like to just take one focus from that conversation that I had with the guest expert, and just really dive into it for 15 to 20 minutes, just telling the story. And for me, I got into podcasting, just because my brother and I are obsessed with podcasts. We listen to just so many podcasts, whenever we’re traveling on the road, whatever it happens to be. And I’ve gravitated towards storytelling podcasts. And I think that oral storytelling is one of those great gifts that we have as humans. It’s so deep in our DNA, from Homer and the Iliad and Odyssey, and all of these are just spoken stories that have been passed down traditionally, through tribes and cultures. It’s just, it’s such a deeply ingrained human thing to have oral storytelling as a skill. So I really wanted to start developing that skill. I had been writing a lot up to that point. And I was like, it’s time. I’m obsessed with podcasts. I love these types of podcasts. How about I create one within the fitness space that tells fitness stories?

    Misbah Haque  (46:19):

    Do you have no idea how much I resonate with that? And I know that when I was on your show, I talked to you about how I love the format of just conversations, unfiltered, not too much editing, just totally lacking. But on the other end, I totally appreciate that format that you just talked about and the crafting of the narrative and storytelling. And that’s something that,  for sure has not come naturally. To me. It’s something I’d have, like, put some time into learning more about I’m still kind of working on. But I’d love to hear your thoughts on what goes through your head when you’re crafting a narrative. And when you’re trying to tell a story, you’ve got like this 90 minutes of conversation and you’re trying to narrow it down to 15 to 20 minutes. What’s going through your head to be able to filter that down?

    Matthew  (47:10):

    So as far as my process goes, usually, I’m while I am interviewing whoever I’m interviewing, I have a notebook out. And I’m just taking some notes because that also helps me drive the conversation. While I was interviewing, you had three things that I wanted to talk about. And that was because I early on would create this huge list of questions. And I am so focused on what question to ask next. But I didn’t let the conversation flow. So now I have three things that I want to talk about. And that’s allowed me just to go off on tangents like you and I talked about your, your comedy, and your experience with comedy for about 15 minutes. And that wasn’t something I wanted to talk about. But it was something that was so cool to dive into. So usually, I’ll be taking notes. And I’ll really know some of the things that I want to dive back into. But then I listen to the recording of the podcast or of the interview again. And I’ll really just create the time signatures, throw some stars on things that I think are really golden messages. And then from there after I’ve had the conversation, and then I’ve listened to it again, that allows me to figure out okay, where do I want to dive into? And how do I tell the story? 

    And there’s a lot of different types of narratives. But I think really, the best way to tell the story is to, to try to set up the world or set up the context in which the story is happening. You have some type of conflict, and then you have some type of resolution. So I really tried to with the shows, set up the world or set up some context for what we’re going to be talking about. Then from there, I want to show okay, what’s the problem? And then what are the solutions that this guest expert has provided us? And through that, I’m able to craft the narrative and it’s something that I’m still looking to get better at. I’m only your episode I think was episode 26, in which you’re at 80 something. So it’s something I’m only going to get better at. And hopefully, as the business grows, and as the podcast grows, I can start hiring a team to actually really tell some great stories.

    Misbah Haque  (49:15):

    I love that. Because even I mean, it was great that you gotta ask me about comedy. And I was like, I’ve never that’s not something I get asked about a ton. And so to be able to go off on like a rant on how much I love it. And what really intrigues me about it was great. And what this reminds me of is Dave Chappelle, when Dave Chappelle and Neal Brennan both wrote half baked that movie, and although it wasn’t, maybe their best piece of work, and they’ve admitted that, but really, what sparked that for Dave Chappelle and really turned him into one of the best storytellers, I think, in comedy today was this book that Neal Brennan gave him it was by Joseph Campbell, I think, and I can’t remember might be the hero’s two journeys or the hero’s journey. And it’s like a textbook-like book that really digs deep into the art of storytelling. And there are many of those out there. But him reading that was apparently like a lightbulb moment that really shaped the way that he performed comedy even beyond that movie. And I think you can pick up on if you watch some of the specials now, he’s a phenomenal storyteller. And so I’m curious for you. Are there any books or resources that stand out that have been light bulb moments for you, when it comes to storytelling?

    Matthew  (50:40):

    And it’s really just that I read so much nonfiction after college because I was like, oh, man, I can finally dive into the topics that I want. And fiction went out the window. I read so much fiction in high school, I was really into literature and reading and when I finally got back to reading, fantasy and sci-fi books, man, the authors of those books have to do such a good job building the world. Because it’s something it’s weren’t. You’re not, it’s not planet Earth. As it’s a different world, or a different universe, or a different dimension. And they have to build that world. And it is usually all of those tales centered around a hero’s journey. So for me, just reading some really good sci-fi and fantasy books has really opened my eyes to storytelling again. And some of my favorites just to throw some tangible ones out there are the Kingkiller Chronicles by Patrick Rothfuss. It’s a trilogy where the third one hasn’t been written yet. And it’s just killing me deep inside, but I can’t read it. The first one, the first book in the trilogy is called Name of the Wind.

    And he’s a hot man. It’s great. I liken it to Harry Potter, except that the author has flaws. Harry Potter, like, after his parents die, everything kind of happens for him, and the plot unfolds for him. Nothing too bad happens. And there’s just all this like, oh, wow, there’s a magic spell for like, kill Voldemort. But the Kingkiller Chronicle is the type of magic that requires some ingenuity. And the main character has his flaws. And his flaws really create the conflict that moves the plot forward. And it’s I just think it’s a much better story. And then yeah, there’s just some really epic sci-fi books. It’s a fantasy series. You read Ender’s Game, for example, or Dune is one of the classics. Dude, you get some amazing world-building, it can be somewhat tedious at first, but you’re really happy that the author actually took the time to create that world because when the plot unfolds, it’s really vivid in your head.

    Misbah Haque  (52:44):

    That’s amazing. This is perfect to lead into my rapid fires. Are you ready? Yeah, go for it. So let’s say that you have a couple billion dollars. And you can give two or three books to every person in the world, and what two or three books come to mind for you.

    Matthew  (53:03):

    I just put together a book list for the beyond macros group coaching program. And the top two books, the two that I recommend for everybody are The Power of Habit, because by Charles Duhigg because I really think it gives you a good framework for understanding, how cravings set off your habits and your behaviors, and how you can use that to start to change your behaviors and your habits. Whether that’s engineering a new habit, where that’s coming to awareness about a bad habit, and figuring out how to transmute it, you don’t necessarily need to eliminate that habit loop entirely. But maybe you just insert a new behavior that’s more productive. So that’s one of the books that I think everybody should read because then they have a really good understanding of how to change their own habits if they choose to come to awareness about them and change them. The other one that I recommend everybody reads is Mindset by Carol Dweck. Because as I mentioned, for me embodying the growth mindset, in every facet of life has been one of the most liberating things that I’ve adopted in my life. And I think that that book although a lot of the things are like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. It almost feels intuitive. The way that Carol Dweck puts it is really, it can be a life-changing thing. So those would be my top two books from a nonfiction perspective. And then I think from a fiction perspective, just to get people interested in, in fiction, again, maybe Name of the Wind, I’ve just found that Kingkiller Chronicle that’s it’s good.

    Rapid fire

    Misbah Haque  (54:35):

    I’m gonna have to check that one out. Because that’s, that’s an area that I for sure, have not really tapped into. But maybe that’s because I don’t really even know where to start. But if you’re telling me that that’s a good way to go, I’ll take your word for it. 

    Matthew  (54:50):

    If you want to get into the art of storytelling, I think fantasy and sci fi is a great route to go and actually, man, I should just throw out Neil Gaiman as an author in general.

    Misbah Haque  (55:02):

    What’s your favorite, like work from Neil Gaiman?

    Matthew  (55:07):

    Dude, I actually just listened to Norse mythology, the audiobook, and his performance is so good, like the voice that he does for Thor, it’s like this deep guttural like he really sounds like you could be Thor. He just does such a good job of performing his own books on audiobooks. And I think that’s the best way to consume his works. But I’d say Norse mythology, and Graveyard Book is probably two of his most well-told stories. And I would definitely say that American Gods is great. But now that I’ve read Norse mythology, I feel like I would have a much better appreciation for that work. And it’s long. And I know my brother didn’t like it. I know some other people didn’t like it, but I really enjoyed the book.

    Misbah Haque  (55:51):

    You’re You’re so right. Because his voice is. It’s epic. It’s, I think, the preferred way to listen to any of his books. But if he had a podcast, man, that would be funny, like I would. I would be listening to that all the time solely just for his voice. It doesn’t matter what he’s talking about. It would make me listen.Have you ever listened to make good art? It was a speech that he did, I think at the University of Arts in Philadelphia or something like that.

    Matthew  (56:22):

    No, have an author check that out. 

    Misbah Haque  (56:24):

    Yeah, check that out, you might like it. It’s something that I’m sure they’ve like transcribed and put into text. But listening to it like the full, it’s like a 19 minute YouTube clip. It’s pretty awesome. If you like his work. It’s a nice perspective outside of just fiction in the way his brain works. It’s nice.

    Matthew  (56:42):

    Awesome, man. Thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely be listening.

    Misbah Haque  (56:45):

    Let’s say that you’re still a billionaire, right. And then you have a staff of 40 people, these 40 people are top performers, tough fingers in whatever it is that you’ve recruited them for. And you want to do something with that. It can be anything you want whether it’s to make some type of impact, some type of change, pursue a personal passion, whatever that might be. What comes to mind for you.

    Matthew  (57:11):

    This might take a staff of more than 40 people. But I really think that one of the biggest impacts that someone like myself could have is because I’m like, I’m sitting on a farm right now in Maui. And I’m really taking the time to understand everything about food and nutrition. And the way that I see it, if we could make good food available for everybody in the worldlike, figure out the hunger issue, without, really bad farming practices that are going to hurt the earth, and we can help people really just improve their nutrition from the bottom up, I just think that that would be such a powerful change in the world. Because if people all of a sudden are eating good, or demanding good quality foods and things that were raised in a way that doesn’t hurt the earth, that would just be such a potent change not only for the environment, which I’m passionate about, I spend a lot of time in nature, but also, just like humans would be healthier, and happier and really not have their health be this roadblock that stands in the way of them pursuing what they want. Because so many people are, for example, in debt because of medical bills and taking care of their family, who are ill because of preventable chronic diseases. And if we, if we all just were able to be a little bit healthier, because of the things that we put into our body. And figuring out how to make that available for the masses would be amazing. And I know that would take a team of more than 40 people, but hey, maybe 40 top performers could leverage technology to do something like that.

    Misbah Haque  (58:45):

    Let’s look at the complete opposite. And now, right, and everything that you’ve kind of accomplished, has been kind of wiped away, right? And so you’re starting from ground zero here. And all you have is $500 and a laptop. Yeah, what would you do, whether that’s to get back to where you are now, or go in a completely different direction? What comes to mind for you.

    Matthew  (59:11):

    So I just like, I really appreciate the fact that the only reason I’m able to work remotely and have my business be online, is that I spent the time in the parodies of CrossFit in particular, I’ve really spent the time on the ground, working with people face to face one on one trying things, seeing what worked, and just iterating and every time something didn’t work, learning the lesson and moving on from there. So if I were to get back to where I’m at today, I would just plant myself and stop being a nomadic plant myself. Probably if I only had $500, somewhere in the Midwest, and just be across a gym and working with people face to face and trying new things. I’d probably buy some books with that. $500 Maybe I would do a certification, something along those lines, just to build up my technical knowledge and build up my fieldwork again, because that is what has allowed me to create a system that works and continues to work better as I iterate it. So I would just get right back down to laying the foundation, I wouldn’t try to skip ahead, I wouldn’t try any crazy marketing tactics, I would just work with people for a very cheap rate. 

    Because they have to have some buy-in themselves, they have to have some skin in the game. And I would just develop my skills and my system all over again. And if I had to do it in an unrelated field, whatever it was, I would find an environment where I could rapidly learn. And I would plant myself there, and I would do it. And then once I found that I was having a good success rate with it, and it was something that was worth spreading, then that’s when I would start getting back into using the internet. Because the internet and podcasts and social media, it’s an amplifier. And if you’re amplifying crap, like no one’s no one’s gonna want Listen, they’re gonna run in the opposite direction, because but if you’re amplifying good solid messages, then you might have an audience that starts to warm, and you might have people that actually kind of post up and they want to listen, and they want to hear more. So I would want to get to that point before all of a sudden, I start using the amplifier.

    Taking a leap

    Misbah Haque  (1:01:12):

    That’s amazing, if we when I think about a top performer in any field, or simply a person who’s achieved success, right, relative to what they were looking for just a high level of achievement, there came a point where they had to jump, right, like you didn’t know what was gonna happen next, but you had to take the leap. And the parachute didn’t quite open when you wanted it to on the way down, you were torn up by cliffs or your clothes came off, it took maybe much longer than you want it to for that parachute to open. And then eventually, maybe it does. But can you think of a moment like that for you, where you really didn’t know what was going to happen next, and you had to take that leap? And maybe now you’ve had a safe landing? Or you haven’t, but what’s the first thing that comes to mind for you when I say that?

    Matthew  (1:02:07):

    I guess the first thing is just the fact that I left my life in Los Angeles when it was at a peak, really, I just had so many such deep roots in so many great relationships. And I still have those great relationships, but just the idea of leaving an environment where I’d put down such deep roots, and establish such great communities and love with relationships, and just really had so many things that I was excited about doing in LA, and to just to end my lease on my place, and to pack up my car, and, to get rid of most of my things, and to just hit the road without much of a plan. Other than I’m gonna the only planning I’ve done is for my business, like, so far as my personal life goes, I’m just leaving open space for opportunity. And there’s definitely been some times on this trip where I’ve definitely had some challenges, and I’ve hit a cliff here and there. But there’s been other times where you’re just at this all-time high, you’ve had a safe landing. And for me just leaving my environment when things were good, rather than waiting until the perfect moment, or even on the opposite end of things when things are so bad, you’re almost forced to leave. That was a big jump for me. And I’m so glad that I took it.

    Misbah Haque  (1:03:20):

    What was it about that that made you take the leap? Because like you said you everything was good, everything was at an all time high? And what did that conversation in your head look like? Where it’s like, Man, I’m leaving all this? It’s a bit risky, but I’m gonna take the leap anyways.

    Matthew  (1:03:39):

    So it was, as I mentioned, it was just getting back to listening to what I wanted to do. And I was asking myself is this life that I’ve been living the life that I want to continue living? And a part of me was like, yes there’s, there are directions you can go in here that are going to be very fulfilling. But I also had this part of me that was like, dude, explore, like, your roots are deep here. And if you keep staying here, and you keep making life good, like, you may never leave, you may never explore and have these experiences, to the degree that you could if you leave right now. And it was really just listening to that, that deep part of me that wanted to get out there and get out and explore.

    There were so many things like oh, man, like, if you’re out there exploring, you’re not going to have enough time for your business or your fitness or this or that. And there were all the reservations that came with it. But I mean, the business has grown. I feel like I have been able to connect on a much deeper level with all my clients and all the people that I meet and I’ve been able to connect deeper with myself. And yeah, it’s just I mean, it’s paid off that it was a huge risk for me. But yeah, it’s paid off.

    Misbah Haque  (1:04:51):

    And that being said, you’re the guy who people come to when they have questions around food and nutrition, and I’m sure you get a lot of questions. Since around that, but is there something in particular that you don’t get asked enough about something you wish people would ask you more?

    Matthew  (1:05:08):

    I just wish people would ask more questions. I feel like people have the license to ask a beyond macros coach, any question that they want, anytime and get an answer within a day. And I’ve just found overwhelmingly that people don’t really take advantage of that. They don’t take advantage of the fact that they have an expert in their corner. Even within my group coaching program, the thing is, you should expect, I think, 10% of your network to be super users. And I found that a much larger proportion of my group program participants are definitely super contributors. But then there’s that subset that hasn’t taken advantage of anything. And like, this is the first run I’m doing of the group program. And I’ve been pouring a lot into it. I’ve been responding to people and really giving them as much personalized attention as possible for a group program. 

    But I feel like not everybody has taken advantage of the opportunity to get that coaching and get their questions answered. And along those lines, I’ve also found that when things get really tough for people, when they’re traveling, when they’ve got some family shit when they’ve got just issues in general, that are hard to work through, or they have obstacles popping up, that’s when they tend to go radio silent. And they don’t ask the questions that are going to help them work through it. And I really, I take responsibility for that. Because I need to do a better job. If I want people to open up about creating, as we talked about a safe environment where people can feel comfortable it’s a vulnerable thing. Your trust is a vulnerable thing. So I need to continually create a safer and safer environment for people to actually feel like they can ask those tough questions. And open up like, yeah, I’m really struggling things aren’t perfect. And, here’s where I’m struggling, let’s work through this. I really just wish that people would ask more questions, especially when they have an expert like me or one of my coaches in their corner.

    Growth mindset

    Misbah Haque  (1:07:09):

    I love that man. What is something that you would like a listener to take away from today’s conversation?

    Matthew  (1:07:22):

    One, if they’re interested in making any changes to their nutrition, to shift their mindset to a long-term perspective. So because somebody listening to this show, I think it reasonable to assume that they enjoy their fitness, I think it also reasonable to assume that they may have a growth mindset. So if somebody listening to this show can take the time and realize that they have a long life ahead of them, because they’ve chosen a healthy path, then they can realize they don’t have to do everything all at once. And you can change one habit at a time. And over the course of your long lifetime, you’re going to have built an incredible foundation for yourself. And it’ll be effortless for you to be healthy, to have low stress to be resilient to stress when it shows up, to get your bedtime and your circadian rhythm back in order after one weekend a party and whatever it happens to be, you’ll just create such an amazing foundation for yourself and, and really be able to almost effortlessly feel good.

    And then that frees up your energy to focus on other things like your bigger purpose, where you fit in, in this world, and being able to address your relationships and what you want out of this life. So yeah, taking that long-term perspective and realizing you don’t have to do everything all at once. And I think with that packed in that it is focused.

    Misbah Haque  (1:08:39):

    That’s huge. Yeah, where can we point people to, to learn more about you to kind of help support you and your journey and keep up with what you’re doing?

    Matthew  (1:08:50):

    I would encourage people to check out my company Beyond macros. You can check us out at If you’re interested in coaching, we have a bunch of information there. We’ll be opening up our group coaching program again in March but you can pre-register for that. At, one of my clients who is just absolutely hilarious, he works in the comedy industry. He runs our Instagram, he makes some really funny fitness memes. So you can follow us at macros. And then of course the Beyond Macros podcast. It’s 15 to 20 minutes every week. If you subscribe, you can listen to Misbah being the one that’s sitting in the interview chair and that’s really all the places that you can follow beyond macros. If you want to follow me, personally, I’m on Instagram @groceryninja.

    Misbah Haque  (1:09:42):

    Sweet. All that linked up. But thank you so much, Matt, for coming on. I had a wonderful conversation with you and we’d love to have you back on at some point.

    Matthew  (1:09:51):

    Yeah, man, I’d love to come back on and like I said, I need to talk to you again because we’re diving into interpersonal communication next time.

    Misbah Haque  (1:09:58):

    I’m ready, man. Yeah,

    Matthew  (1:10:00):

    I’m looking forward to your perspectives.

    Misbah Haque  (1:10:03):

    Thank you so much for listening, guys. I appreciate you tuning in and lending me your ears before you take off. If you are a coach or you’re simply of the mindset that your ability to connect is your greatest asset, then please head over to the, Dr. Megan Kayden, who is a clinical psychologist and I have put together a course called “The Art and Science of connection”. So if you place a high value on communication conversations, listening, asking the right questions, and helping people feel seen, heard, and understood, then you might find some of this interesting once again, that is the

    Secondly, if you can head over to iTunes and leave a review with your thoughts, it is the best compliment that you can give. Once again, thank you so much for listening, guys. Until next time!

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